5 ms·

Just as it would be unreasonable to require that anyone who drives a car roughly understands how an engine works, it would be similarly unreasonable to require

Just as it would be unreasonable to require that anyone who drives a car roughly understands how an engine works, it would be similarly unreasonable to require that anyone who uses the internet roughly understands how addressing works. It is of course true that your car ownership experience will be greatly enriched by understanding roughly how an engine works, and that your internet experience will be greatly enriched by understanding how addressing works. But neither should be a prerequisite. You underestimate how subtle the concepts underlying addressing are, probably because, like many technical people, you have understood how URLs work for so long that you can no longer remember what it is like to not understand them.

teacup50 12y ago
There's a rich irony in your avoidance of the most obvious car analogy possible: between internet addressing and street addressing. Understanding URLs is in no way similar to even a rudimentary understanding how an internal combustion engine works. What it's most similar is understanding how we address and route physical destinations so that you can get there in your car.
- edanm 12y ago
  As I said in another comment: Try and explain to the average user why URLs on HN look like this: news.ycombinator.com/?id=123123 Whereas on CNN they look like this: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/04/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/04/world/africa/nigeria-abduc... Whereas on another news site (Israeli) they look like this: http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4516118,00.html http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4516118,00.html Whereas on Reddit they look like this: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/24p3tm/japanese_photographer_takes_cutest_pictures_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/24p3tm/japanese_photog... Each one of these is a completely different implementation detail which the average user doesn't care about and, honestly, won't necessarily understand without understanding the underlying technology behind these sites. Remember: Most users barely understand, if at all, what a browser is! And if you want to see a comparable challenge, try to explain to someone just one thing - why do some sites have www vs. not. The parent's sentence was really great: "You underestimate how subtle the concepts underlying addressing are, probably because, like many technical people, you have understood how URLs work for so long that you can no longer remember what it is like to not understand them."
  - teacup50 12y ago
    > Try and explain to the average user why URLs on HN look like this: That's easy. "The information following the domain name is used to route your request to the appropriate destination". > Each one of these is a completely different implementation detail which the average user doesn't care about and, honestly, won't necessarily understand without understanding the underlying technology behind these sites. Why do they have to understand the "underlying technology" at all? If you think physical addresses are simpler, you'd be wrong: Sgt John Smith Headquarters Company 7th Army Training Center ATTN: AETT-AG Unit 28130 APO AE 09114-8130 or: Mr John Doe CMR 333 Box 2345 APO AE 09903-0024 or: John Doe C/O Acme, Inc. STE 12 123 Main St NW Placename, State 12345-1234 or: Jane Doe P.O. Box 562 Placename, State 12345 or (this is dual addressing, guess what it means? it doesn't mean the P.O. box is at 123 Main St NW): Jane Doe 123 Main St NW P.O. Box 562 Placename, State 12345-1234 or: Don Johnson Professor, GIS Studies and Internet Arguments UCIA Computer Science Department 5th Floor Rockefeller Building East C/O UCIA 12345 Main Address Street Placename, State, 12345-1234 These are complicated, and we haven't even delved into common abbreviations, street layout consistency, relative addressing, or, god forbid, international addressing. Yet somehow people write, address, and successfully send mail, every single day. They get in their cars and navigate the interstates and the weird street grids and one-way streets that they're unfamiliar with, and eventually wind up at the right place. Or, they plug the address into their GPS and get there, without ever really understanding how the GPS performs the routing, just that it does, but still fully cognizant of what the addresses mean, even if they don't understand the system under which they were allocated. I don't think your argument holds water; not even a little.
    - edanm 12y ago
      Well, you're absolutely right that I don't understand most of those addresses. You're right that I could still send them mails though, in exactly the same way people use URL's - rote copying them, then letting the technology (or mail system) work its magic. I don't need to understand your PO box example to get it working.
  - pdkl95 12y ago

teacup50 12y ago

There's a rich irony in your avoidance of the most obvious car analogy possible: between internet addressing and street addressing. Understanding URLs is in no way similar to even a rudimentary understanding how an internal combustion engine works. What it's most similar is understanding how we address and route physical destinations so that you can get there in your car.

edanm 12y ago
As I said in another comment: Try and explain to the average user why URLs on HN look like this: news.ycombinator.com/?id=123123 Whereas on CNN they look like this: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/04/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/04/world/africa/nigeria-abduc... Whereas on another news site (Israeli) they look like this: http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4516118,00.html http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4516118,00.html Whereas on Reddit they look like this: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/24p3tm/japanese_photographer_takes_cutest_pictures_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/24p3tm/japanese_photog... Each one of these is a completely different implementation detail which the average user doesn't care about and, honestly, won't necessarily understand without understanding the underlying technology behind these sites. Remember: Most users barely understand, if at all, what a browser is! And if you want to see a comparable challenge, try to explain to someone just one thing - why do some sites have www vs. not. The parent's sentence was really great: "You underestimate how subtle the concepts underlying addressing are, probably because, like many technical people, you have understood how URLs work for so long that you can no longer remember what it is like to not understand them."
- teacup50 12y ago
  > Try and explain to the average user why URLs on HN look like this: That's easy. "The information following the domain name is used to route your request to the appropriate destination". > Each one of these is a completely different implementation detail which the average user doesn't care about and, honestly, won't necessarily understand without understanding the underlying technology behind these sites. Why do they have to understand the "underlying technology" at all? If you think physical addresses are simpler, you'd be wrong: Sgt John Smith Headquarters Company 7th Army Training Center ATTN: AETT-AG Unit 28130 APO AE 09114-8130 or: Mr John Doe CMR 333 Box 2345 APO AE 09903-0024 or: John Doe C/O Acme, Inc. STE 12 123 Main St NW Placename, State 12345-1234 or: Jane Doe P.O. Box 562 Placename, State 12345 or (this is dual addressing, guess what it means? it doesn't mean the P.O. box is at 123 Main St NW): Jane Doe 123 Main St NW P.O. Box 562 Placename, State 12345-1234 or: Don Johnson Professor, GIS Studies and Internet Arguments UCIA Computer Science Department 5th Floor Rockefeller Building East C/O UCIA 12345 Main Address Street Placename, State, 12345-1234 These are complicated, and we haven't even delved into common abbreviations, street layout consistency, relative addressing, or, god forbid, international addressing. Yet somehow people write, address, and successfully send mail, every single day. They get in their cars and navigate the interstates and the weird street grids and one-way streets that they're unfamiliar with, and eventually wind up at the right place. Or, they plug the address into their GPS and get there, without ever really understanding how the GPS performs the routing, just that it does, but still fully cognizant of what the addresses mean, even if they don't understand the system under which they were allocated. I don't think your argument holds water; not even a little.
  - edanm 12y ago
    Well, you're absolutely right that I don't understand most of those addresses. You're right that I could still send them mails though, in exactly the same way people use URL's - rote copying them, then letting the technology (or mail system) work its magic. I don't need to understand your PO box example to get it working.
- pdkl95 12y ago