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It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. The TSA, NSA, NYPD, Bloods and Cr

It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. The TSA, NSA, NYPD, Bloods and Crips, the reasons go on. It used to be that Disney Land was one of the reasons to go to America. More and more people I speak to who would have gone now say "meh" to the idea.

antocv 12y ago
A friend of mine said he would never visit Saudi Arabia because he could get jailed or killed for no reason or no fair trial. I told him thats my reason for not visiting USA, Bradley Manning among a list of many and Guantanamo.
- jpatokal 12y ago
  Also, you would not be "jailed or killed for no reason" in Saudi Arabia -- it's just that some of the reasons you would be jailed are a bit unusual (adultery, alcohol, proselytizing). https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Respect https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Respect
  - PythonicAlpha 12y ago
    Or for women: Having been raped .... (I don't find the link now, but there was a news about a European woman, that was raped and when she was going to the police, she was arrested for adultery and threatened with jail (I think) or else she should marry the rapist. I am not sure, if it was Saudi Arabia or a neighboring country, but such a thing just makes me ill!)
    - kps 12y ago
      You're probably thinking of Marte Dalelv, a Norwegian woman on a business trip in Dubai†. Or possibly Alicia Gali, the Australian woman raped and then jailed 8 months in Fujairah UAE‡. †http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Marte_Dalelv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Marte_Dalelv ‡http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Gali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Gali
  - vacri 12y ago
    I once worked with an Eritrean whose family came to Australia by way of Canada after moving to Saudi. They moved away from Saudi because my colleague's father noted that there are no protections for black people under Saudi law - if something went wrong, they were utterly screwed. They could be targeted by criminals and the law wouldn't care a jot. Saudi laws should not be characterised as "just a little stricter and odder than we're used to". http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/saudi-arabia-the-middle-easts-real-apartheid-state/ http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/saudi-arabia-th... Saudi also practises that modern form of slavery where slaves aren't property now, they're merely foreign labourers who have had their identity documents removed so they can't escape and their promised wages withheld. http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2013/december/saudi-arabia-defending-slavery.htm http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2013/december/saudi-arabia-defend...
tokenadult 12y ago
It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. As people in the United States wake up on a Sunday morning in their time zones, I guess it falls on me to say that this all depends on whom you talk to. I know lots of people who desire to visit the United States. The United States is still second only to France as the country most visited by tourists from other countries.[1] That's remarkable to me because France has land borders with several other countries, all countries with large populations, while the United States mostly has to be reached by transoceanic air travel. The original post says, "I have heard that if I have been to some countries I might be refused to enter the US." What it does not say is, "I have checked the United States laws and have checked actual practice of what happens at the United States border, to see how that compares with border control in other countries." And then there are a couple of anecdotes in the few responses. This is basically not a high-quality submission for Hacker News, as it doesn't promote the thoughtful, informed discussion that should characterize our community here. The typical set of Hacker News comments about the United States from people who have never been to the United States seems to mingle two points of view. On the one hand, the United States is criticized as an undesirable place that no one would want to live in or even visit, given a choice. On the other hand, the United States is criticized as an inhospitable place that doesn't give free, unrestricted entry to anyone who wants to work or visit or settle in the United States. (Criticisms of United States immigration policy on Hacker News mostly take the form of saying that the United States should let in more immigrants like, um, the people who participate on Hacker News.) A fable attributed to the Greek author Aesop[2] may explain how these seemingly contrary opinions of the United States can exist in the mind of the same person. [1] http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/the-worlds-most-popular-country-for-tourists-in-2013-20140124-31cx0.html http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/the-worlds-most-pop... http://time.com/10296/most-popular-countries-to-visit-map/ http://time.com/10296/most-popular-countries-to-visit-map/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings (Some sources disagree on the exact ranking, but every source I checked puts France first and puts the United States in the top five.) [2] http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html
- VexXtreme 12y ago
tzs 12y ago
Bloods and Crips? How are the Bloods and Crips a reason to avoid travel to the US?
- fennecfoxen 12y ago
  Ignorance. Ignorance of how they work and how unlikely they are to affect your life. (I'm sure many Americans are similarly ignorant about some "dangerous" group in another geographic location which is in fact dangerous but unlikely to be encountered.)
  - yummyfajitas 12y ago
    People back in the US worry about me getting robbed/murdered here in India. Apparently a country full of poor folks must be dangerous like Newark, NJ. (India is dangerous, but not for men, and not because of poverty.)
  - hadoukenio 12y ago
    I was mainly talking about gang violence and the US' extremely high shooting rate. It was only last year that an Australian was shot while he was jogging by a group of 15 year old boys for no reason except that they were bored: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-05/teenages-accused-in-death-of-australian-baseballer-chris-lane-a/5238858 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-05/teenages-accused-in-de...
    - fennecfoxen 12y ago
      Maybe, but look at risk in a little more detached of a manner: essentially no one is going to come to the US and get shot. They're going to come to the US and die in a car crash.
- mindslight 12y ago
  I figured OP just got carried away listing lawless gangs of thugs. Or it could have been a reference to republicans and democrats - fighting each other for business turf, and hurting everyone else in the process.
chestnut-tree 12y ago
The US remains a very popular tourist destination and I'm guessing that many European countries will also look suspiciously at your passport if you've recently travelled to countries embroiled in conflict such as Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. I'd like to visit the US, but I don't like the idea of having my fingerprints taken and stored for 75 years by US authorities. Of course, it's completely within the right of US authorities to decide the rules for entry into their country and I suspect it deters a very small number of people. Fingerprints are also taken by EU countries that issue biometric passports: http://euobserver.com/news/121816 http://euobserver.com/news/121816
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

antocv 12y ago

A friend of mine said he would never visit Saudi Arabia because he could get jailed or killed for no reason or no fair trial. I told him thats my reason for not visiting USA, Bradley Manning among a list of many and Guantanamo.

jpatokal 12y ago
Also, you would not be "jailed or killed for no reason" in Saudi Arabia -- it's just that some of the reasons you would be jailed are a bit unusual (adultery, alcohol, proselytizing). https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Respect https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Respect
- PythonicAlpha 12y ago
  Or for women: Having been raped .... (I don't find the link now, but there was a news about a European woman, that was raped and when she was going to the police, she was arrested for adultery and threatened with jail (I think) or else she should marry the rapist. I am not sure, if it was Saudi Arabia or a neighboring country, but such a thing just makes me ill!)
  - kps 12y ago
    You're probably thinking of Marte Dalelv, a Norwegian woman on a business trip in Dubai†. Or possibly Alicia Gali, the Australian woman raped and then jailed 8 months in Fujairah UAE‡. †http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Marte_Dalelv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Marte_Dalelv ‡http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Gali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Gali
- vacri 12y ago
  I once worked with an Eritrean whose family came to Australia by way of Canada after moving to Saudi. They moved away from Saudi because my colleague's father noted that there are no protections for black people under Saudi law - if something went wrong, they were utterly screwed. They could be targeted by criminals and the law wouldn't care a jot. Saudi laws should not be characterised as "just a little stricter and odder than we're used to". http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/saudi-arabia-the-middle-easts-real-apartheid-state/ http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/saudi-arabia-th... Saudi also practises that modern form of slavery where slaves aren't property now, they're merely foreign labourers who have had their identity documents removed so they can't escape and their promised wages withheld. http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2013/december/saudi-arabia-defending-slavery.htm http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2013/december/saudi-arabia-defend...

tokenadult 12y ago

It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. As people in the United States wake up on a Sunday morning in their time zones, I guess it falls on me to say that this all depends on whom you talk to. I know lots of people who desire to visit the United States. The United States is still second only to France as the country most visited by tourists from other countries.[1] That's remarkable to me because France has land borders with several other countries, all countries with large populations, while the United States mostly has to be reached by transoceanic air travel. The original post says, "I have heard that if I have been to some countries I might be refused to enter the US." What it does not say is, "I have checked the United States laws and have checked actual practice of what happens at the United States border, to see how that compares with border control in other countries." And then there are a couple of anecdotes in the few responses. This is basically not a high-quality submission for Hacker News, as it doesn't promote the thoughtful, informed discussion that should characterize our community here. The typical set of Hacker News comments about the United States from people who have never been to the United States seems to mingle two points of view. On the one hand, the United States is criticized as an undesirable place that no one would want to live in or even visit, given a choice. On the other hand, the United States is criticized as an inhospitable place that doesn't give free, unrestricted entry to anyone who wants to work or visit or settle in the United States. (Criticisms of United States immigration policy on Hacker News mostly take the form of saying that the United States should let in more immigrants like, um, the people who participate on Hacker News.) A fable attributed to the Greek author Aesop[2] may explain how these seemingly contrary opinions of the United States can exist in the mind of the same person. [1] http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/the-worlds-most-popular-country-for-tourists-in-2013-20140124-31cx0.html http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/the-worlds-most-pop... http://time.com/10296/most-popular-countries-to-visit-map/ http://time.com/10296/most-popular-countries-to-visit-map/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings (Some sources disagree on the exact ranking, but every source I checked puts France first and puts the United States in the top five.) [2] http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html

VexXtreme 12y ago

tzs 12y ago

Bloods and Crips? How are the Bloods and Crips a reason to avoid travel to the US?

fennecfoxen 12y ago
Ignorance. Ignorance of how they work and how unlikely they are to affect your life. (I'm sure many Americans are similarly ignorant about some "dangerous" group in another geographic location which is in fact dangerous but unlikely to be encountered.)
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  People back in the US worry about me getting robbed/murdered here in India. Apparently a country full of poor folks must be dangerous like Newark, NJ. (India is dangerous, but not for men, and not because of poverty.)
- hadoukenio 12y ago
  I was mainly talking about gang violence and the US' extremely high shooting rate. It was only last year that an Australian was shot while he was jogging by a group of 15 year old boys for no reason except that they were bored: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-05/teenages-accused-in-death-of-australian-baseballer-chris-lane-a/5238858 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-05/teenages-accused-in-de...
  - fennecfoxen 12y ago
    Maybe, but look at risk in a little more detached of a manner: essentially no one is going to come to the US and get shot. They're going to come to the US and die in a car crash.
mindslight 12y ago
I figured OP just got carried away listing lawless gangs of thugs. Or it could have been a reference to republicans and democrats - fighting each other for business turf, and hurting everyone else in the process.

chestnut-tree 12y ago

The US remains a very popular tourist destination and I'm guessing that many European countries will also look suspiciously at your passport if you've recently travelled to countries embroiled in conflict such as Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. I'd like to visit the US, but I don't like the idea of having my fingerprints taken and stored for 75 years by US authorities. Of course, it's completely within the right of US authorities to decide the rules for entry into their country and I suspect it deters a very small number of people. Fingerprints are also taken by EU countries that issue biometric passports: http://euobserver.com/news/121816 http://euobserver.com/news/121816

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]