5 ms·

Not iPhone, but it's related to my stolen MacBook Pro. 'Find My iPhone' doesn't always work and I think we can have a better solution. This is my story: A few

Not iPhone, but it's related to my stolen MacBook Pro. 'Find My iPhone' doesn't always work and I think we can have a better solution. This is my story: A few weeks back, there was a theft at my place and I lost all my valuables (cash, credit cards, headphones) but most importantly my laptop. I'm tired and frustrated of going to Police station to inquire about it. I want to fix it! Here is what I propose: We can use the power of crowd to locate lost devices. I think most stolen laptops are sold second-hand in grey markets. If we can tell a buyer somehow that the laptop he is about to buy is stolen, there is a high probability that he will not buy it. We can make a mobile app/website where anyone who has lost a laptop can enter basic details of his device ( Serial No., Model etc.) and whenever anyone is about to buy a second-hand laptop, he can check our app/website and immediately know whether the laptop is stolen or not. This can help people locate their lost devices and can lead them to the thieves. What do you guys think? This is just one idea that can help people recover their lost devices. There might be many other ways, and we can brainstorm them here. Let's shoot! PS: Please drop me a line if you are interested in working on this problem!

cones688 12y ago
We already have this in the UK and its run by the British Police forces. https://www.immobilise.com/index.php https://www.immobilise.com/index.php
psykovsky 12y ago
Something like http://www.tracechecker.com/ http://www.tracechecker.com/ , maybe? > Checking by citizens and Police on Trace is FREE.
wellboy 12y ago
Great idea, but I think it has a hard chicken and egg problem. You can have lots of people who put their lost serial number on the website, however until until not more than 100k people have heard about your website and are engaged with it, very few people who lost their device will have a match. I think also there is quite some lots and found websites out there, so maybe it's a better idea to talk to them about implementing your mechanism.
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  I think it can work the other way round as well. No need to wait till your device gets stolen, log your details beforehand and in case you lose it just report it. I understand that it becomes useful once we reach critical mass, but it has to start somewhere. We have to take charge and help each other and stop depending on authorities.
matthewmacleod 12y ago
I had my laptop stolen a few years ago. The police took the serial number and details, and added it to a list they circulated to second-hand/pawn shops; this is checked when big-ticket items are brought in. It was (apparently) also used for searching websites like Craigslist to look for distinguishing features in similar devices sold locally. Pretty cool overall. So it works in this sense, and while I really like the idea you're talking about, I don't think it'll work for a few of reasons: 1. This is apparently already happening (albeit behind the scenes, and probably only in some areas) 2. It seems unlikely that the seller of a stolen device will be willing to allow you to check the serial number against a database. OTOH if you do decide it's worth pursuing and you want some technical resource, hit me up :)
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  Matthew, thanks for your input. I definitely want to give it a try. Will shoot you a mail soon :)
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Did you get your laptop back?
  - matthewmacleod 12y ago
    No. So it's obviously not working entirely :) I expect that a seasoned thief would know to ship the stolen goods out of the area for fencing.
- svantana 12y ago
  > It seems unlikely that the seller of a stolen device will be willing to allow you to check the serial number against a database. Well if they are reluctant then you know it's stolen, so that's not a problem.
astrange 12y ago
Was your laptop in Find My Mac?
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  Unfortunately not! But I researched a lot after this incident and learned that most people who had 'Find My Mac' installed never found their device either. That's why I came up with this idea.
k-mcgrady 12y ago
>> "If we can tell a buyer somehow that the laptop he is about to buy is stolen, there is a high probability that he will not buy it." I don't think this is true. People buying cheap laptops on the grey/black market care about 1 thing - price. Most know int he back of their minds there is something shady about the deal but it doesn't bother them enough to say no to a low price.
- jasonwocky 12y ago
  Whether something is in the back of your mind or in the front of your mind will affect one's decision-making. But I don't think that buyers will seek out this information as a rule.
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  I agree that it's not easy to change people's mentality when they get a cheaper device. But if given a choice between a stolen laptop and a clean one, I'm sure many will opt for later. Also, I am not aiming for 100% success rate, even if we are able to help a few folks get their laptop back it will be our victory!
- gugol 12y ago
  You can go further and say that if the buyer knows it's stolen and asks for a lower price then suddenly stealing a laptop isn't worth it that much.
- Springtime 12y ago
  Mmm. True of some of the neighborhoods I've been in.
- bananas 12y ago
  This. I've sold a lot of second hand thinkpads over the years and no one ever asks where I got them from (usually stock auctions - who can pass up 20x T400s for £20 each with a market value of £140+.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Do you have a contact email address? You don't have one listed in your profile information. (Please contact me by my email address, in my profile, if you want to keep yours off HN).
troels 12y ago
Most police forces have some system like that, although it's primarily domestic. There are some cross-country collaboration going on though. I used to work for a company that recycled used cell phones and as you might imagine, it's very tempting for crooks to try and float their stolen goods there. Because of this, all serial numbers (imei) were checked against a trans national registry (checkmend in the UK). But even though this is commonly known in the UK, and we even advertised it on site, then we would still regularly get stolen phones in. I think the bigger problem is that most stolen goods are sold directly to the new "owners". In most cases they probably know (or at least suspect) that they are buying stolen goods. They just don't care. Unless you make it a risk for them to buy it (E.g. they knew the police would eventually trace the item and they would face charges of theft), it is not going to stop. People have shitty morals.
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  In case of cell phones, IMEI numbers are in place but there is nothing similar for laptops. That's why I came up with this. And as I said earlier, I am not aiming for 100% success rate, even if we are able to help a few folks get their laptop back it will be our victory!
lalwanivikas 12y ago
Another thing that interests me to solve this is via hardware. There are devices like Tile, Trackr available in the market but they are easily recognizable and thieves will detach them. Alternatives to that could be: - A paper thin version of above mentioned devices that can be pasted on laptop OR - Replacing a keyboard key with any of the above devices The hardware will do two things: 1) It will tell the location of the device and 2) It will 'factory reset' the device so that the data doesn't fall into wrong hands. What do you think?
perlpimp 12y ago
I have lost or had a few things stolen. I'd rather would think of them as broken and let them go probably be more careful next time but without driving myself caremad. If your latop dropped in the water I bet you would be less disappointed than if someone nicked it. If you you can recover it, say for example laptop location showing to be located in a better area of town than it is worth locating and talking to the person, saying you would sumbit their identity to the police. Other than that it is better to let go of upset or it will ruin more of your life than the laptop is worth. Database of stolen devices is a nice project and maybe can lead to recoverd things, particularly expensive ones, like my $5k camera. But in the end it will prolong grief people who lost their things to various situations. If you device is used for work it is best to insure it and back up regularly. Most pros that use their hardware for work insure their bits of stuff. However hardware is notoriously cheap nowadays even very good laptop costs around 2K, where I have spend 5k in year 2004 for similar setup relevant to the time I was buying it....
jreed91 12y ago
The biggest problem with find my Mac is that it has to be connected to the internet to work. I'm guessing people selling on the black market are smart enough to make sure that doesn't happen. I think a better solution is something like Tile is doing. http://www.thetileapp.com http://www.thetileapp.com. Install a low powered Bluetooth beacon on every device and use the power crowd source in order to find that device. The two biggest things that would have to happen for it to work would be 1. A major manufacturer like apple would have to install it on every device in order build up a big enough user base to make it feasible 2. The ability to find the lost device would have to require no user input. Basically the person that lost the device would mark it as lost and then every iPhone would now know that and in the background would look for that Bluetooth device and if found would automatically send that location back to the user who lost their device. It has some privacy concerns but I think this would be an effective way to find lost devices.
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  I proposed a similar thing but it got buried in the comments below. Here it is: Devices like Tile, Trackr are available in the market but they are easily recognizable and thieves will detach them. If they can't be inbuilt due to any reason, there are two alternatives to make it work: 1) A paper thin version of above mentioned devices that can be pasted on laptop OR - 2) Replacing a keyboard key with any of the above devices The hardware will do two things: 1) It will tell the location of the device and 2) It will 'factory reset' the device so that the data doesn't fall into wrong hands. What do you think?
  - jreed91 12y ago
    I think the biggest problem is getting the user base. The location of the device is an afterthought to me. It needs to be a standard in the tech world in order for the crowd sourcing idea to work.
- ianburrell 12y ago
  Apple wouldn't need to add a beacon to devices like phones, tablets, or laptops. They already have Bluetooth. The problem is that Bluetooth is usually turned off and when turned on is not discoverable. Manufacturer could easily add software that regularly turned on Bluetooth and sent out a beacon. With Bluetooth LE, it wouldn't use much power. The Bluetooth MAC address could be the identifier. Also, Wifi can be used as a beacon. Wifi is usually turned on and broadcasts message to discover known networks.
Joshu42 12y ago
One-of-a-kind laptop fully customized with laser engraving (from epiloglaser), and we can add an online database on top of it. Easy to identify at a distance.
nmikz 12y ago
www.checkmend.com holds a large database of used electronics..
nthj 12y ago
While this is a really clever idea, and I'm really sorry to hear about your computer, I can't help but wonder if you would have a greater impact by, say, designing an online social media campaign to convince thousands of people to spend $30 on MacBook lock cables, over saving a few computers after the fact. If you set up a one-page infographic and linked to lock cables via Amazon referral links, you might even have the potential to make a few bucks to cover hosting, beer, or donating lock cables to a local underprivileged hackers' group.
- lalwanivikas 12y ago
  Lock cables definitely help in many cases, but it personally wouldn't have helped me as the thieves broke into my home when I was sleeping and took many more things. What you are proposing is a good preventive measure, but stealing is a crime and we need to have better solutions to handle it whenever it happens.

cones688 12y ago

We already have this in the UK and its run by the British Police forces. https://www.immobilise.com/index.php https://www.immobilise.com/index.php

psykovsky 12y ago

Something like http://www.tracechecker.com/ http://www.tracechecker.com/ , maybe? > Checking by citizens and Police on Trace is FREE.

wellboy 12y ago

Great idea, but I think it has a hard chicken and egg problem. You can have lots of people who put their lost serial number on the website, however until until not more than 100k people have heard about your website and are engaged with it, very few people who lost their device will have a match. I think also there is quite some lots and found websites out there, so maybe it's a better idea to talk to them about implementing your mechanism.

lalwanivikas 12y ago
I think it can work the other way round as well. No need to wait till your device gets stolen, log your details beforehand and in case you lose it just report it. I understand that it becomes useful once we reach critical mass, but it has to start somewhere. We have to take charge and help each other and stop depending on authorities.

matthewmacleod 12y ago

I had my laptop stolen a few years ago. The police took the serial number and details, and added it to a list they circulated to second-hand/pawn shops; this is checked when big-ticket items are brought in. It was (apparently) also used for searching websites like Craigslist to look for distinguishing features in similar devices sold locally. Pretty cool overall. So it works in this sense, and while I really like the idea you're talking about, I don't think it'll work for a few of reasons: 1. This is apparently already happening (albeit behind the scenes, and probably only in some areas) 2. It seems unlikely that the seller of a stolen device will be willing to allow you to check the serial number against a database. OTOH if you do decide it's worth pursuing and you want some technical resource, hit me up :)

lalwanivikas 12y ago
Matthew, thanks for your input. I definitely want to give it a try. Will shoot you a mail soon :)
jacquesm 12y ago
Did you get your laptop back?
- matthewmacleod 12y ago
  No. So it's obviously not working entirely :) I expect that a seasoned thief would know to ship the stolen goods out of the area for fencing.
svantana 12y ago
> It seems unlikely that the seller of a stolen device will be willing to allow you to check the serial number against a database. Well if they are reluctant then you know it's stolen, so that's not a problem.

astrange 12y ago

Was your laptop in Find My Mac?

lalwanivikas 12y ago
Unfortunately not! But I researched a lot after this incident and learned that most people who had 'Find My Mac' installed never found their device either. That's why I came up with this idea.

k-mcgrady 12y ago

>> "If we can tell a buyer somehow that the laptop he is about to buy is stolen, there is a high probability that he will not buy it." I don't think this is true. People buying cheap laptops on the grey/black market care about 1 thing - price. Most know int he back of their minds there is something shady about the deal but it doesn't bother them enough to say no to a low price.

jasonwocky 12y ago
Whether something is in the back of your mind or in the front of your mind will affect one's decision-making. But I don't think that buyers will seek out this information as a rule.
lalwanivikas 12y ago
I agree that it's not easy to change people's mentality when they get a cheaper device. But if given a choice between a stolen laptop and a clean one, I'm sure many will opt for later. Also, I am not aiming for 100% success rate, even if we are able to help a few folks get their laptop back it will be our victory!
gugol 12y ago
You can go further and say that if the buyer knows it's stolen and asks for a lower price then suddenly stealing a laptop isn't worth it that much.
Springtime 12y ago
Mmm. True of some of the neighborhoods I've been in.
bananas 12y ago
This. I've sold a lot of second hand thinkpads over the years and no one ever asks where I got them from (usually stock auctions - who can pass up 20x T400s for £20 each with a market value of £140+.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Do you have a contact email address? You don't have one listed in your profile information. (Please contact me by my email address, in my profile, if you want to keep yours off HN).

troels 12y ago

Most police forces have some system like that, although it's primarily domestic. There are some cross-country collaboration going on though. I used to work for a company that recycled used cell phones and as you might imagine, it's very tempting for crooks to try and float their stolen goods there. Because of this, all serial numbers (imei) were checked against a trans national registry (checkmend in the UK). But even though this is commonly known in the UK, and we even advertised it on site, then we would still regularly get stolen phones in. I think the bigger problem is that most stolen goods are sold directly to the new "owners". In most cases they probably know (or at least suspect) that they are buying stolen goods. They just don't care. Unless you make it a risk for them to buy it (E.g. they knew the police would eventually trace the item and they would face charges of theft), it is not going to stop. People have shitty morals.

lalwanivikas 12y ago
In case of cell phones, IMEI numbers are in place but there is nothing similar for laptops. That's why I came up with this. And as I said earlier, I am not aiming for 100% success rate, even if we are able to help a few folks get their laptop back it will be our victory!

lalwanivikas 12y ago

Another thing that interests me to solve this is via hardware. There are devices like Tile, Trackr available in the market but they are easily recognizable and thieves will detach them. Alternatives to that could be: - A paper thin version of above mentioned devices that can be pasted on laptop OR - Replacing a keyboard key with any of the above devices The hardware will do two things: 1) It will tell the location of the device and 2) It will 'factory reset' the device so that the data doesn't fall into wrong hands. What do you think?

perlpimp 12y ago

I have lost or had a few things stolen. I'd rather would think of them as broken and let them go probably be more careful next time but without driving myself caremad. If your latop dropped in the water I bet you would be less disappointed than if someone nicked it. If you you can recover it, say for example laptop location showing to be located in a better area of town than it is worth locating and talking to the person, saying you would sumbit their identity to the police. Other than that it is better to let go of upset or it will ruin more of your life than the laptop is worth. Database of stolen devices is a nice project and maybe can lead to recoverd things, particularly expensive ones, like my $5k camera. But in the end it will prolong grief people who lost their things to various situations. If you device is used for work it is best to insure it and back up regularly. Most pros that use their hardware for work insure their bits of stuff. However hardware is notoriously cheap nowadays even very good laptop costs around 2K, where I have spend 5k in year 2004 for similar setup relevant to the time I was buying it....

jreed91 12y ago

The biggest problem with find my Mac is that it has to be connected to the internet to work. I'm guessing people selling on the black market are smart enough to make sure that doesn't happen. I think a better solution is something like Tile is doing. http://www.thetileapp.com http://www.thetileapp.com. Install a low powered Bluetooth beacon on every device and use the power crowd source in order to find that device. The two biggest things that would have to happen for it to work would be 1. A major manufacturer like apple would have to install it on every device in order build up a big enough user base to make it feasible 2. The ability to find the lost device would have to require no user input. Basically the person that lost the device would mark it as lost and then every iPhone would now know that and in the background would look for that Bluetooth device and if found would automatically send that location back to the user who lost their device. It has some privacy concerns but I think this would be an effective way to find lost devices.

lalwanivikas 12y ago
I proposed a similar thing but it got buried in the comments below. Here it is: Devices like Tile, Trackr are available in the market but they are easily recognizable and thieves will detach them. If they can't be inbuilt due to any reason, there are two alternatives to make it work: 1) A paper thin version of above mentioned devices that can be pasted on laptop OR - 2) Replacing a keyboard key with any of the above devices The hardware will do two things: 1) It will tell the location of the device and 2) It will 'factory reset' the device so that the data doesn't fall into wrong hands. What do you think?
- jreed91 12y ago
  I think the biggest problem is getting the user base. The location of the device is an afterthought to me. It needs to be a standard in the tech world in order for the crowd sourcing idea to work.
ianburrell 12y ago
Apple wouldn't need to add a beacon to devices like phones, tablets, or laptops. They already have Bluetooth. The problem is that Bluetooth is usually turned off and when turned on is not discoverable. Manufacturer could easily add software that regularly turned on Bluetooth and sent out a beacon. With Bluetooth LE, it wouldn't use much power. The Bluetooth MAC address could be the identifier. Also, Wifi can be used as a beacon. Wifi is usually turned on and broadcasts message to discover known networks.

Joshu42 12y ago

One-of-a-kind laptop fully customized with laser engraving (from epiloglaser), and we can add an online database on top of it. Easy to identify at a distance.

nmikz 12y ago

www.checkmend.com holds a large database of used electronics..

nthj 12y ago

While this is a really clever idea, and I'm really sorry to hear about your computer, I can't help but wonder if you would have a greater impact by, say, designing an online social media campaign to convince thousands of people to spend $30 on MacBook lock cables, over saving a few computers after the fact. If you set up a one-page infographic and linked to lock cables via Amazon referral links, you might even have the potential to make a few bucks to cover hosting, beer, or donating lock cables to a local underprivileged hackers' group.

lalwanivikas 12y ago
Lock cables definitely help in many cases, but it personally wouldn't have helped me as the thieves broke into my home when I was sleeping and took many more things. What you are proposing is a good preventive measure, but stealing is a crime and we need to have better solutions to handle it whenever it happens.