5 ms·

>But the breeding of humans is not so wisely supervised, particularly in a narrow Southern society where the closest kind of inbreeding is not only stylish and

>But the breeding of humans is not so wisely supervised, particularly in a narrow Southern society where the closest kind of inbreeding is not only stylish and acceptable, but far more convenient—to the parents—than setting their offspring free to find their own mates, for their own reasons and their own ways. (“Goddam, did you hear about Smitty’s daughter? She went crazy in Boston last week and married a nigger!”) I don't know much about marriage patters on Southern states in the 70's, but I find it amazing that Jews, Chinese, Africans etc. manage to mostly avoid race-mixing, but also avoid the opposite extreme of literal in-breeding. What is it about White people that, unlike every single other ethnicity, who produce rich, vibrant cultures when left to their own devices, White people turn into crazy inbred rednecks? I mean, I've never read a similar article about close-knit Jewish communities in Brooklyn, or African immigrant communities. Somehow those people manage to retain a distinctive culture and lifestyle (and even some of the conservative values that the author describes), without becoming the caricature the author describes. EDIT: this post was a parody of anti-White sentiment such as the part of the article that I quoted. I don't actually think White people are special in the way I described. What is unique is the ridicule to which White culture and White communities are subject by the mainstream media.

vezzy-fnord 12y ago
It feels like I'm reading reverse Stormfront.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  There were a couple articles the last few days that brought out the biotruths / MRAs / etc crew, I guess some of them stayed on.
  - QuantumChaos 12y ago
    I was posting about the double standard by which the media treats White communities vs communities of other ethnicity's. Nothing to do with genetic differences, Men's Rights, or any other group you want to associate me with for no reason.
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
      That's a lot more than 14 words, pal.
      - QuantumChaos 12y ago
        great rebuttal
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        For the record: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
theorique 12y ago
What is it about ----- people that, unlike every single other ethnicity, who produce rich, vibrant cultures when left to their own devices, ----- people turn into crazy ------ --------? I find that it's useful to take 'potentially' racist screeds and see if they would still sound racist if you mixed up the groups being criticized. In this case, yes, it still sounds racist.
- coldtea 12y ago
  In ANY case, it makes a valid point and provides food for thought.
icegreentea 12y ago
This honestly needs to be voted back up to at least neutral. I don't think QuantumChaos is trolling or anything like that here, and it's honestly an important point. I don't know how many of you here have South or South East Asian parents, especially those who are first generation immigrants. I live in Canada (in Toronto!), so I get to talk to fellow immigrants about this all the time. It's pretty much accepted that many of our parents are racist. I have a Tamil friend who will only date other Tamils because of her parents. My Korean friends know that their parents will disapprove of them dating non-Koreans. My Chinese friend caused a stir in her family when she dated an African. A lot of these parents will not have a problem with other ethnicities or whatever. They're not going to call anyone a nigger, or a gwielo, or a towelhead or whatever. They're not going to avoid talking to someone of a different skin color. They'll happily go out and be real and true friends of whoever. But they'll want their children to 'keep the tradition' or whatever. This is a real thing. And it is a real racism. Whether or not we think its an acceptable thing is one thing. But if we let the Korean immigrants get away with it, then we can't get too upset at when the 'white people' do it.
- QuantumChaos 12y ago
  Thanks for expanding on my point. I would also add that it's not just about the act of self-selection, but the way the communities are viewed in themselves. Exactly the same qualities are described in very different terms, e.g. a tight knit community which upholds their traditions and values in the face of modernity, vs inbred, ignorant bigots. The main difference between my viewpoint and others who make similar arguments, is that I'm not saying this is an actual contradiction. There are many differences in context which mean that the two cannot be directly compared. However, there is what I would call a discrepancy. The author of this piece never made a logical argument, that what is good for White communities isn't good for others. He simply painted a picture, which many people might find compelling. If I can expose this discrepancy, people might find these narratives less compelling.
  - apostal 12y ago
    The "discrepancy" you are oh-so-desperately trying to invent is, if anything, the difference between a racist culture that has dominated a nation, and reactions to that racism. Hunter S Thompson's narrative IS compelling, because that racism was and is still rampant in the United States.
anigbrowl 12y ago
The writer critiques 'a narrow Southern society' that goes in for intermarriage. It is who who generalized this to an attack on 'White culture.' Inbreeding exists in many cultures. It's just that we're familiar with our own cultural referents (American in this case), whereas we're not as familiar with the sub-populations of other nations or ethnic groups that might be known for it. For example, there's a large city in Saudi Arabia called Dammam where first-cousin marriages are unusually common for reasons which have to do with tribal history [1]. It's quite possible that people in other parts of Saudi Arabia make jokes or critiques of people from that city, but they would be lost on anyone who hasn't studied the subject. 1. http://www.as.wvu.edu/~kgarbutt/QuantGen/Gen535_2_2004/Inbreeding_Humans.htm http://www.as.wvu.edu/~kgarbutt/QuantGen/Gen535_2_2004/Inbre... As for complaining about how poorly white culture and communities are treated by the mainstream media, get back to me when the comment pages of most news sites are no longer awash with the toxic rantings of racist idiots.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >As for complaining about how poorly white culture and communities are treated by the mainstream media, get back to me when the comment pages of most news sites are no longer awash with the toxic rantings of racist idiots. I don't know which "mainstream media" you mean, but a lot of mainstream media I read are awash with the toxic rantings of PC idiots.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dang 12y ago
This subthread is a poster child for thread derailing: an off-topic provocation (on race, no less) followed by earnest rebuttals and further provocations. Please don't post, or respond to, this kind of off-topic flamebait on HN.
- QuantumChaos 12y ago
  I don't think that what I wrote was off-topic, because poking fun of Southern White society was a major theme throughout the entire article, not just the part I quoted directly. And my subsequent posts clarified my viewpoint, and weren't written in inflammatory language. It's not my fault that some people immediately associate the use of the term "White" with a crazy Stormfront posting neo-Nazi. How else am I supposed to refer to the subject matter? Using White in a negative context seems to be fine. If a lot of people think that using terms like "White culture" makes you a neo-Nazi, then that precisely confirms that the viewpoint I was parodying in my first post is alive and well.
  - dang 12y ago
    You poured gasoline along the shortest path to a flamewar, threw in a couple matches, and then acted like the rational one. Subsequent posts to "clarify" merely feed the flames. The damage was done. And "it was only a parody" is deeply lame. The discourse is fragile. This kind of thing harms it. Whether it's arson or just pyrotechnics doesn't much matter. Please don't do it again.
    - QuantumChaos 12y ago
      The term "parody" is often misused, but I was using it correctly here. My post was a parody of what I perceived to be anti-White bias. This did initially cause some confusion, but all of the criticism I received was by people who recognized the intent of my post. A more direct version would have gone something like "Imagine if the author had portrayed Jews, Chinese or Africans living in the US using the same insulting caricatures, or conflated their relative ethnic homogeneity with literal inbreeding..." If you would prefer the latter style of presentation, I will try and avoid satire/parody as a stylistic device.

vezzy-fnord 12y ago

It feels like I'm reading reverse Stormfront.

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
There were a couple articles the last few days that brought out the biotruths / MRAs / etc crew, I guess some of them stayed on.
- QuantumChaos 12y ago
  I was posting about the double standard by which the media treats White communities vs communities of other ethnicity's. Nothing to do with genetic differences, Men's Rights, or any other group you want to associate me with for no reason.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    That's a lot more than 14 words, pal.
    - QuantumChaos 12y ago
      great rebuttal
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
      For the record: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

theorique 12y ago

What is it about ----- people that, unlike every single other ethnicity, who produce rich, vibrant cultures when left to their own devices, ----- people turn into crazy ------ --------? I find that it's useful to take 'potentially' racist screeds and see if they would still sound racist if you mixed up the groups being criticized. In this case, yes, it still sounds racist.

coldtea 12y ago
In ANY case, it makes a valid point and provides food for thought.

icegreentea 12y ago

This honestly needs to be voted back up to at least neutral. I don't think QuantumChaos is trolling or anything like that here, and it's honestly an important point. I don't know how many of you here have South or South East Asian parents, especially those who are first generation immigrants. I live in Canada (in Toronto!), so I get to talk to fellow immigrants about this all the time. It's pretty much accepted that many of our parents are racist. I have a Tamil friend who will only date other Tamils because of her parents. My Korean friends know that their parents will disapprove of them dating non-Koreans. My Chinese friend caused a stir in her family when she dated an African. A lot of these parents will not have a problem with other ethnicities or whatever. They're not going to call anyone a nigger, or a gwielo, or a towelhead or whatever. They're not going to avoid talking to someone of a different skin color. They'll happily go out and be real and true friends of whoever. But they'll want their children to 'keep the tradition' or whatever. This is a real thing. And it is a real racism. Whether or not we think its an acceptable thing is one thing. But if we let the Korean immigrants get away with it, then we can't get too upset at when the 'white people' do it.

QuantumChaos 12y ago
Thanks for expanding on my point. I would also add that it's not just about the act of self-selection, but the way the communities are viewed in themselves. Exactly the same qualities are described in very different terms, e.g. a tight knit community which upholds their traditions and values in the face of modernity, vs inbred, ignorant bigots. The main difference between my viewpoint and others who make similar arguments, is that I'm not saying this is an actual contradiction. There are many differences in context which mean that the two cannot be directly compared. However, there is what I would call a discrepancy. The author of this piece never made a logical argument, that what is good for White communities isn't good for others. He simply painted a picture, which many people might find compelling. If I can expose this discrepancy, people might find these narratives less compelling.
- apostal 12y ago
  The "discrepancy" you are oh-so-desperately trying to invent is, if anything, the difference between a racist culture that has dominated a nation, and reactions to that racism. Hunter S Thompson's narrative IS compelling, because that racism was and is still rampant in the United States.

anigbrowl 12y ago

The writer critiques 'a narrow Southern society' that goes in for intermarriage. It is who who generalized this to an attack on 'White culture.' Inbreeding exists in many cultures. It's just that we're familiar with our own cultural referents (American in this case), whereas we're not as familiar with the sub-populations of other nations or ethnic groups that might be known for it. For example, there's a large city in Saudi Arabia called Dammam where first-cousin marriages are unusually common for reasons which have to do with tribal history [1]. It's quite possible that people in other parts of Saudi Arabia make jokes or critiques of people from that city, but they would be lost on anyone who hasn't studied the subject. 1. http://www.as.wvu.edu/~kgarbutt/QuantGen/Gen535_2_2004/Inbreeding_Humans.htm http://www.as.wvu.edu/~kgarbutt/QuantGen/Gen535_2_2004/Inbre... As for complaining about how poorly white culture and communities are treated by the mainstream media, get back to me when the comment pages of most news sites are no longer awash with the toxic rantings of racist idiots.

coldtea 12y ago
>As for complaining about how poorly white culture and communities are treated by the mainstream media, get back to me when the comment pages of most news sites are no longer awash with the toxic rantings of racist idiots. I don't know which "mainstream media" you mean, but a lot of mainstream media I read are awash with the toxic rantings of PC idiots.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dang 12y ago

This subthread is a poster child for thread derailing: an off-topic provocation (on race, no less) followed by earnest rebuttals and further provocations. Please don't post, or respond to, this kind of off-topic flamebait on HN.

QuantumChaos 12y ago
I don't think that what I wrote was off-topic, because poking fun of Southern White society was a major theme throughout the entire article, not just the part I quoted directly. And my subsequent posts clarified my viewpoint, and weren't written in inflammatory language. It's not my fault that some people immediately associate the use of the term "White" with a crazy Stormfront posting neo-Nazi. How else am I supposed to refer to the subject matter? Using White in a negative context seems to be fine. If a lot of people think that using terms like "White culture" makes you a neo-Nazi, then that precisely confirms that the viewpoint I was parodying in my first post is alive and well.
- dang 12y ago
  You poured gasoline along the shortest path to a flamewar, threw in a couple matches, and then acted like the rational one. Subsequent posts to "clarify" merely feed the flames. The damage was done. And "it was only a parody" is deeply lame. The discourse is fragile. This kind of thing harms it. Whether it's arson or just pyrotechnics doesn't much matter. Please don't do it again.
  - QuantumChaos 12y ago
    The term "parody" is often misused, but I was using it correctly here. My post was a parody of what I perceived to be anti-White bias. This did initially cause some confusion, but all of the criticism I received was by people who recognized the intent of my post. A more direct version would have gone something like "Imagine if the author had portrayed Jews, Chinese or Africans living in the US using the same insulting caricatures, or conflated their relative ethnic homogeneity with literal inbreeding..." If you would prefer the latter style of presentation, I will try and avoid satire/parody as a stylistic device.