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With regard to swimming, there are huge differences between ethnic groups in the US: about 70 percent of African-American children, 60 percent of Latino childre

by mkempe 13y ago

With regard to swimming, there are huge differences between ethnic groups in the US: about 70 percent of African-American children, 60 percent of Latino children and 40 percent of white children are non-swimmers. [1] [2] A few years ago, my wife worked on an ethnographic research project about the lack of swimming skills in the African-American population. One thing that was striking was the difference with other multi-cultural countries --e.g. the UK and South Africa-- where there are no such differences in the acquisition of swimming skills between ethnic groups. In the UK, learning to swim is part of the national curriculum, unlike the US [edit: I don't mean this to be an exclusive explanation]. On a personal note, the notion that so many US children don't know how to swim is horrifying. I consider it a basic life skill, as important as knowing how to cross a road. My daughter learnt to swim before she learnt to ride a bike. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11172054 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11172054 [2] http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/swimming-and-the-fear-factor/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/swimming-and-the-fe...

bprieto 13y ago
My first son learnt to swim before he learnt to walk. A cousin fell into a swimming pool when he was two, almost died and has severe brain damage, so we wanted to be sure it couldn't happen to a child of us.
Lolecule 13y ago
Another possible reason why there may be no differences in the UK is that some councils here offer free access to swimming facilities. A council I used to live under provided free access for everyone, then budget cuts happened and I think it's now limited to under 16's.
aspidistra 13y ago
> In the UK, learning to swim is part of the national curriculum, unlike the US. More details on exactly what kids in the UK are taught: Swimming and water safety: All schools must provide swimming instruction either in key stage 1 or key stage 2. In particular, pupils should be taught to: - swim competently, confidently and proficiently over a distance of at least 25 metres - use a range of strokes effectively [for example, front crawl, backstroke and breaststroke] - perform safe self-rescue in different water-based situations https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-physical-education-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-physical-education-programmes-of-study https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curricul... Key Stage 1 = Years 1 and 2, so aged 5 to 7 years. Key Stage 2 = Years 3 to 6, so ages 7 to 11. From my own experience 25 years ago that last bit, about safe self-rescue, involved: * how to enter water safely if you need to (ie. jumping or lowering yourself in, when not to dive etc) * making floats out of clothing (ie. your old pyjama bottoms) * swimming underwater, including through hoops weighed down on the pool floor with bricks (presumably to mimic navigating tight flooded spaces) * treading water (for AGES) * mushroom floating (not sure if there's a technical term for this?) * how to recover somebody from the water We went once a week to the council pool on the other side of town and pretty much everyone, all 30 of us, had learned all that by the time we finished and left for high school aged 11.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  >> "We went once a week to the council pool on the other side of town and pretty much everyone, all 30 of us, had learned all that by the time we finished and left for high school aged 11." I had the same experience. Even the people that had a fear of water/drowning could swim at a basic level without assistance. I think we got a 1 hour lesson per week for around 8 weeks a year for 2 or 3 years.
- kaitai 13y ago
  In the US even when there are swimming lessons in schools, they're often dramatically understaffed (from my point of view) -- one teacher, no lifeguard, for 30 students. There are several recent incidents in the US of immigrant kids drowning in school lessons. How was the staffing done at your school or elsewhere in the UK?
  - aspidistra 13y ago
    The class was usually split up in to groups of about 10, depending on age / proficiency. There'd be a teacher leading each group. There would also be the lifeguards from the pool. If I remember rightly, this was at least two, if not more -- there always seemed to be one sitting up in the high chair, and there always seemed to be one patrolling the pool edge. It was a 25m pool, and while the school was there it was closed to the wider public.
- jameshart 13y ago
  And one key phrase in there that emphasizes a difference between the UK and US is "council pool". My experience in the US - even in Massachusetts where they actually have functioning local government and aren't too afraid of providing public services - is that providing a swimming pool is a pretty low priority for town government. Often a pool will be provided by the local school system, but access will still be based on a membership fee, which excludes a lot of people from access.
  - aspidistra 13y ago
    With the austerity measures in place in the UK in recent years there have been a few cases of despair at councils closing their swimming pools and leisure centres to try to cut costs. This is often despite fewer and fewer people attending them over the years. Public swimming pools are a rich seam for nostalgia in Britain. Many public swimming pools were originally built in Victorian times and so fall into the "Always There" backdrop of a city, things you never really enthuse about but would miss if they were gone. http://www.victoriansociety.org.uk/news/category/swimming-pools/ http://www.victoriansociety.org.uk/news/category/swimming-po... Lidos, public outdoor pools, make up the other half of Swimming Pool Nostalgia. Most were built in the 1930s. They had already fallen out of fashion, really, when I was a kid -- since holidays abroad had become cheap -- but there was one quite near us, about 30 mins drive away, and going there was a bit of a treat. There have been a few campaigns in recent years -- some successful -- to restore lidos or at least preserve them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lidos_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lidos_in_the_United_...
gk1 13y ago
> I consider it a basic life skill, as important as knowing how to cross a road. Why? As a horrible swimmer myself, I've gotten by just fine. Even went through a merchant mariner college (which is kind of like a watered-down Naval Academy) and earned a seaman license.
- mongol 13y ago
  To improve your chances of survival if you fall into the water? Pretty important skill to have I think.
  - daliusd 13y ago
    How many times have you felt into the water involuntary in your life? I can't count single time.
    - hrktb 13y ago
      Perhaps also voluntary crossing of small rivers, small lakes, flooded areas. If you're lost in a mountain and your choice is to cross a river or do a 20km walkaround, being able to swim makes a big difference (chances are you'd avoid going in the mountains altogether, but that missing a lot of fun) Also adults know how to avoid falling into water, small kids are not so good at this game yet.
    - noir_lord 13y ago
      Once and another time I went in voluntarily to pull someone else out, in both cases had I not been a decent swimmer someone might have died.
    - dalke 13y ago
      Perhaps a dozen? Roughhousing by a pool or on a dock can lead to that. Even leaving that out, the last time I fell into the water involuntary was a couple of years ago in my first kayak lesson. I did a stroke wrong, rolled over, and ended up in the lake.
    - Jtsummers 13y ago
mgkimsal 13y ago
Might it be something to do with living on an island and historically there having been more boats and water transport issues vs, say, someone living in the center of the US (Kentucky? Tennessee? Kansas?)

by mkempe 13y ago

bprieto 13y ago

My first son learnt to swim before he learnt to walk. A cousin fell into a swimming pool when he was two, almost died and has severe brain damage, so we wanted to be sure it couldn't happen to a child of us.

Lolecule 13y ago

Another possible reason why there may be no differences in the UK is that some councils here offer free access to swimming facilities. A council I used to live under provided free access for everyone, then budget cuts happened and I think it's now limited to under 16's.

aspidistra 13y ago

> In the UK, learning to swim is part of the national curriculum, unlike the US. More details on exactly what kids in the UK are taught: Swimming and water safety: All schools must provide swimming instruction either in key stage 1 or key stage 2. In particular, pupils should be taught to: - swim competently, confidently and proficiently over a distance of at least 25 metres - use a range of strokes effectively [for example, front crawl, backstroke and breaststroke] - perform safe self-rescue in different water-based situations https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-physical-education-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-physical-education-programmes-of-study https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curricul... Key Stage 1 = Years 1 and 2, so aged 5 to 7 years. Key Stage 2 = Years 3 to 6, so ages 7 to 11. From my own experience 25 years ago that last bit, about safe self-rescue, involved: * how to enter water safely if you need to (ie. jumping or lowering yourself in, when not to dive etc) * making floats out of clothing (ie. your old pyjama bottoms) * swimming underwater, including through hoops weighed down on the pool floor with bricks (presumably to mimic navigating tight flooded spaces) * treading water (for AGES) * mushroom floating (not sure if there's a technical term for this?) * how to recover somebody from the water We went once a week to the council pool on the other side of town and pretty much everyone, all 30 of us, had learned all that by the time we finished and left for high school aged 11.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
>> "We went once a week to the council pool on the other side of town and pretty much everyone, all 30 of us, had learned all that by the time we finished and left for high school aged 11." I had the same experience. Even the people that had a fear of water/drowning could swim at a basic level without assistance. I think we got a 1 hour lesson per week for around 8 weeks a year for 2 or 3 years.
kaitai 13y ago
In the US even when there are swimming lessons in schools, they're often dramatically understaffed (from my point of view) -- one teacher, no lifeguard, for 30 students. There are several recent incidents in the US of immigrant kids drowning in school lessons. How was the staffing done at your school or elsewhere in the UK?
- aspidistra 13y ago
  The class was usually split up in to groups of about 10, depending on age / proficiency. There'd be a teacher leading each group. There would also be the lifeguards from the pool. If I remember rightly, this was at least two, if not more -- there always seemed to be one sitting up in the high chair, and there always seemed to be one patrolling the pool edge. It was a 25m pool, and while the school was there it was closed to the wider public.
jameshart 13y ago
And one key phrase in there that emphasizes a difference between the UK and US is "council pool". My experience in the US - even in Massachusetts where they actually have functioning local government and aren't too afraid of providing public services - is that providing a swimming pool is a pretty low priority for town government. Often a pool will be provided by the local school system, but access will still be based on a membership fee, which excludes a lot of people from access.
- aspidistra 13y ago
  With the austerity measures in place in the UK in recent years there have been a few cases of despair at councils closing their swimming pools and leisure centres to try to cut costs. This is often despite fewer and fewer people attending them over the years. Public swimming pools are a rich seam for nostalgia in Britain. Many public swimming pools were originally built in Victorian times and so fall into the "Always There" backdrop of a city, things you never really enthuse about but would miss if they were gone. http://www.victoriansociety.org.uk/news/category/swimming-pools/ http://www.victoriansociety.org.uk/news/category/swimming-po... Lidos, public outdoor pools, make up the other half of Swimming Pool Nostalgia. Most were built in the 1930s. They had already fallen out of fashion, really, when I was a kid -- since holidays abroad had become cheap -- but there was one quite near us, about 30 mins drive away, and going there was a bit of a treat. There have been a few campaigns in recent years -- some successful -- to restore lidos or at least preserve them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lidos_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lidos_in_the_United_...

gk1 13y ago

> I consider it a basic life skill, as important as knowing how to cross a road. Why? As a horrible swimmer myself, I've gotten by just fine. Even went through a merchant mariner college (which is kind of like a watered-down Naval Academy) and earned a seaman license.

mongol 13y ago
To improve your chances of survival if you fall into the water? Pretty important skill to have I think.
- daliusd 13y ago
  How many times have you felt into the water involuntary in your life? I can't count single time.
  - hrktb 13y ago
    Perhaps also voluntary crossing of small rivers, small lakes, flooded areas. If you're lost in a mountain and your choice is to cross a river or do a 20km walkaround, being able to swim makes a big difference (chances are you'd avoid going in the mountains altogether, but that missing a lot of fun) Also adults know how to avoid falling into water, small kids are not so good at this game yet.
  - noir_lord 13y ago
    Once and another time I went in voluntarily to pull someone else out, in both cases had I not been a decent swimmer someone might have died.
  - dalke 13y ago
    Perhaps a dozen? Roughhousing by a pool or on a dock can lead to that. Even leaving that out, the last time I fell into the water involuntary was a couple of years ago in my first kayak lesson. I did a stroke wrong, rolled over, and ended up in the lake.
  - Jtsummers 13y ago

mgkimsal 13y ago

Might it be something to do with living on an island and historically there having been more boats and water transport issues vs, say, someone living in the center of the US (Kentucky? Tennessee? Kansas?)