4 ms·

It's obviously a reasonable question and the fact that it's illegal to ask is outrageous.

kaitai 12y ago
There was a bunch of discussion of good intentions above. You're one of those people who may or may not have good intentions, but as a woman who might someday have a kid, you make me angry. People like you make me REALLY angry. It's reasonable to doubt my interest in my own f(&ing company, it's reasonable to think I'll suddenly get stupid for hormonal reasons and won't be able to deal with business, it's reasonable... what? Do you not think I'm an intelligent being who has thought about the ramifications of having a kid and running a business? Do you think that it's just some sort of thing that I don't even notice until pop I have a squalling child and then I'm all like wow my brain has turned into maternal mush and I never even expected that! Unlike men who just do stupid business s#(& for rational reasons, like wanting to buy a yacht or upgrade the girlfriend or plain old greed. You don't even give men the credit of asking them if they might pay enough attention to their own kids to lose a moment's focus when one is born. People like you see stupidity, lack of focus, and incompetence in men as simply individual traits. At the same time you treat women as some sort of broad idiot class, implying that women need to justify to you that popping out a kid won't jeopardize the business. You're the reason one of my friends in grad school wouldn't tell anyone she was pregnant for months and months and months, so that no one would deny her a research or teaching assignment or put her on some involuntary leave. edited for asterisks. And one last comment: if you think the woman you are doing business with is not good at business, stop doing business with her. If you think she is, give her enough respect to figure she'll deal with children appropriately, and don't ask stupid questions about whether she'll lose interest in her own company. If you want to ask who will handle x business aspect if she takes leave, that's fine, as it is not a stupid question.
- ShardPhoenix 12y ago
  >People like you make me REALLY angry. Same to you buddy. Guess we'll have to fight it out in the political arena like anything else people can't agree on. PS I didn't even say the things I believe that would really make you angry, like "pregnant women and women with young children probably shouldn't be working at all, and definitely not running a startup". PPS That's a hell of a lot of wild assumptions about what "people like me" believe" off of one sentence.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    This was already fought in the "political arena", and your side lost, because your side is dumb. But you keep flying your freak flag proudly, anonymous retrograde goofball. We'll all just take turns pointing out how stupid your arguments are.
    - ShardPhoenix 12y ago
      Ah, good old Whig history. Well, as we can see from the rise of the Right world-wide and of neo-Reaction among thoughtful people online (hey, I used to be liberal too, you know), you may not be on the 'winning' side forever. So try not to be such an arrogant douchebag now, lest you fall that much harder later.
tptacek 12y ago
I just explained why it wasn't. You didn't even acknowledge my comment, let alone rebut it.
- ShardPhoenix 12y ago
  You explained why it's illegal, but I don't agree with the reasoning. I don't believe the government should be interfering in this kind of thing at all to begin with, but this is a particularly stupid example where something that is clearly highly relevant is somehow off limits due to political correctness.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    My comment is right there for people to read, and your comments are as well, and it's plainly obvious that you're unable to actually respond to the substance of what I said.
    - ShardPhoenix 12y ago
      What substance? What you posted didn't deserve anything beyond a simple, "that's not true", but it was transparently bullshit.
wpietri 12y ago
When we raised money, nobody asked my male cofounder if he was going to be distracted by his young children. Why? Because they knew it would make them look like assholes. That they don't treat women the same way is a hint.
- ShardPhoenix 12y ago
  They should have asked.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    No, they shouldn't have. Because a), the conversational presumption in business contexts is that people are not total idiots, and will have thought about blatantly obvious things, and b) it's a useless question: you're always going to get the "yes, I'm dedicated" answer. Oh, and c) it's rude, and being unnecessarily rude is not a good way to build a business relationship.
    - ShardPhoenix 12y ago
      Those are tactical considerations and have nothing to do with the general liberal attempt to make the entire line of consideration verboten. Liberals would have it that we should pretend that such considerations don't even exist, which is transparently stupid.

There was a bunch of discussion of good intentions above. You're one of those people who may or may not have good intentions, but as a woman who might someday have a kid, you make me angry. People like you make me REALLY angry. It's reasonable to doubt my interest in my own f(&ing company, it's reasonable to think I'll suddenly get stupid for hormonal reasons and won't be able to deal with business, it's reasonable... what? Do you not think I'm an intelligent being who has thought about the ramifications of having a kid and running a business? Do you think that it's just some sort of thing that I don't even notice until pop I have a squalling child and then I'm all like wow my brain has turned into maternal mush and I never even expected that! Unlike men who just do stupid business s#(& for rational reasons, like wanting to buy a yacht or upgrade the girlfriend or plain old greed. You don't even give men the credit of asking them if they might pay enough attention to their own kids to lose a moment's focus when one is born. People like you see stupidity, lack of focus, and incompetence in men as simply individual traits. At the same time you treat women as some sort of broad idiot class, implying that women need to justify to you that popping out a kid won't jeopardize the business. You're the reason one of my friends in grad school wouldn't tell anyone she was pregnant for months and months and months, so that no one would deny her a research or teaching assignment or put her on some involuntary leave. edited for asterisks. And one last comment: if you think the woman you are doing business with is not good at business, stop doing business with her. If you think she is, give her enough respect to figure she'll deal with children appropriately, and don't ask stupid questions about whether she'll lose interest in her own company. If you want to ask who will handle x business aspect if she takes leave, that's fine, as it is not a stupid question.

ShardPhoenix 12y ago
>People like you make me REALLY angry. Same to you buddy. Guess we'll have to fight it out in the political arena like anything else people can't agree on. PS I didn't even say the things I believe that would really make you angry, like "pregnant women and women with young children probably shouldn't be working at all, and definitely not running a startup". PPS That's a hell of a lot of wild assumptions about what "people like me" believe" off of one sentence.
- tptacek 12y ago
  This was already fought in the "political arena", and your side lost, because your side is dumb. But you keep flying your freak flag proudly, anonymous retrograde goofball. We'll all just take turns pointing out how stupid your arguments are.
  - ShardPhoenix 12y ago
    Ah, good old Whig history. Well, as we can see from the rise of the Right world-wide and of neo-Reaction among thoughtful people online (hey, I used to be liberal too, you know), you may not be on the 'winning' side forever. So try not to be such an arrogant douchebag now, lest you fall that much harder later.

tptacek 12y ago

I just explained why it wasn't. You didn't even acknowledge my comment, let alone rebut it.

ShardPhoenix 12y ago
You explained why it's illegal, but I don't agree with the reasoning. I don't believe the government should be interfering in this kind of thing at all to begin with, but this is a particularly stupid example where something that is clearly highly relevant is somehow off limits due to political correctness.
- tptacek 12y ago
  My comment is right there for people to read, and your comments are as well, and it's plainly obvious that you're unable to actually respond to the substance of what I said.
  - ShardPhoenix 12y ago
    What substance? What you posted didn't deserve anything beyond a simple, "that's not true", but it was transparently bullshit.

wpietri 12y ago

When we raised money, nobody asked my male cofounder if he was going to be distracted by his young children. Why? Because they knew it would make them look like assholes. That they don't treat women the same way is a hint.

ShardPhoenix 12y ago
They should have asked.
- wpietri 12y ago
  No, they shouldn't have. Because a), the conversational presumption in business contexts is that people are not total idiots, and will have thought about blatantly obvious things, and b) it's a useless question: you're always going to get the "yes, I'm dedicated" answer. Oh, and c) it's rude, and being unnecessarily rude is not a good way to build a business relationship.
  - ShardPhoenix 12y ago
    Those are tactical considerations and have nothing to do with the general liberal attempt to make the entire line of consideration verboten. Liberals would have it that we should pretend that such considerations don't even exist, which is transparently stupid.