4 ms·

To those who downvoted my comment without argument: what I said is outrageous? unacceptable? men who physically assault women or treat them as purely sexual obj

by mkempe 13y ago

To those who downvoted my comment without argument: what I said is outrageous? unacceptable? men who physically assault women or treat them as purely sexual objects should be tolerated? am I missing something?

wpietri 13y ago
It's certainly not very thoughtful or empathetic. It's easy for you to say what other people should do. But if somebody has been harassed or sexually assaulted, reporting it or suing has to be up to them. There are enormous personal consequences to doing so. Blaming people who decide not to do that is putting an additional unfair burden on somebody who has already been victimized.
- mkempe 13y ago
  You assume and assert so wrongly that I have not put much thought in what I said, and that I don't have empathy for the victims. I've witnessed and been subjected to harassment. These stories, and now your comment, make me viscerally sick.
  - wpietri 13y ago
    In which case, you'll need to write your point better. People can't react to what's in your head, just what's on the page. What I said is a pretty common response to your point, and often comes from people who have been through the wringer: not just the initial harassment, but also the enormous difficulty of speaking up. Read more on the topic and you'll see what I mean.
    - mkempe 13y ago
      You're so smug and condescending, repeatedly ascribing thoughts, knowledge, or lack thereof -- without evidence. In Sweden women, and men, don't tolerate any of this kind of behaviour, and are certainly not taught to keep quiet. Since you position yourself as knowing everything and dispensing lessons, you surely already knew all about how women are treated and expect to be treated in different cultures. Or maybe you think it's really wrong that in Sweden we teach girls that none of this sexual harassment or obscene language is tolerable and none should be treated with silence.
      - wpietri 13y ago
        I'm responding to what you wrote. I of course don't know what you're thinking; I'm trying to convey the impression that your paragraphs left me with. An impression you asked for, by the way. I'm not saying anybody should be taught to keep quiet. I'm saying that you judging other people's actions without knowing their situations (as in "Walking away silently is not the appropriate response.") does not demonstrate thought or empathy. There are legitimate reasons why victims of sexual harassment and assault choose silence, and I think it's important to respect those choices. If we want to fix their silence, the solution isn't to moralize and say that they're doing it wrong. They already have enough to deal with. The solution is to change things so that the incentives around reporting are better.

by mkempe 13y ago

wpietri 13y ago

It's certainly not very thoughtful or empathetic. It's easy for you to say what other people should do. But if somebody has been harassed or sexually assaulted, reporting it or suing has to be up to them. There are enormous personal consequences to doing so. Blaming people who decide not to do that is putting an additional unfair burden on somebody who has already been victimized.

mkempe 13y ago
You assume and assert so wrongly that I have not put much thought in what I said, and that I don't have empathy for the victims. I've witnessed and been subjected to harassment. These stories, and now your comment, make me viscerally sick.
- wpietri 13y ago
  In which case, you'll need to write your point better. People can't react to what's in your head, just what's on the page. What I said is a pretty common response to your point, and often comes from people who have been through the wringer: not just the initial harassment, but also the enormous difficulty of speaking up. Read more on the topic and you'll see what I mean.
  - mkempe 13y ago
    You're so smug and condescending, repeatedly ascribing thoughts, knowledge, or lack thereof -- without evidence. In Sweden women, and men, don't tolerate any of this kind of behaviour, and are certainly not taught to keep quiet. Since you position yourself as knowing everything and dispensing lessons, you surely already knew all about how women are treated and expect to be treated in different cultures. Or maybe you think it's really wrong that in Sweden we teach girls that none of this sexual harassment or obscene language is tolerable and none should be treated with silence.
    - wpietri 13y ago
      I'm responding to what you wrote. I of course don't know what you're thinking; I'm trying to convey the impression that your paragraphs left me with. An impression you asked for, by the way. I'm not saying anybody should be taught to keep quiet. I'm saying that you judging other people's actions without knowing their situations (as in "Walking away silently is not the appropriate response.") does not demonstrate thought or empathy. There are legitimate reasons why victims of sexual harassment and assault choose silence, and I think it's important to respect those choices. If we want to fix their silence, the solution isn't to moralize and say that they're doing it wrong. They already have enough to deal with. The solution is to change things so that the incentives around reporting are better.