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> That said, good intentions don't lessen impact on victims. I fundamentally disagree with you on this, but I've noticed that people seem very divided on this

> That said, good intentions don't lessen impact on victims. I fundamentally disagree with you on this, but I've noticed that people seem very divided on this issue. Personally, if I'm offended by something and I learn that it was a fundamental misunderstanding and no harm was intended, then the anger/hurt/whatever emotion just goes away naturally, without me having to even consciously think about it or calm myself down. My ex-wife was the opposite—once the anger happened it didn't go away no matter how much of a misunderstanding it was that triggered it. I've come to think of it in terms of "Humpty Dumpty" from Alice In Wonderland[1]: "'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." IE, if you are taking more from my words than I put in them (including offense), then that is on you and is not my problem, especially after I've explained myself. I've since learned to just remove the other type of people from my life as much as possible—they just aren't worth the trouble. [1] Technically "Through the Looking Glass": http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12/12-h/12-h.htm#link2HCH0006 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12/12-h/12-h.htm#link2HCH0006

kaitai 13y ago
On a personal and emotional level, I agree with you: once I learn it's a misunderstanding and no harm was intended, I often stop feeling angry. Even if I'm no longer angry per se some hard feelings may remain. I have dealt with men & women from very conservative backgrounds who honestly and with great love believe I should not do what I do for a living, because it involves public speaking and evaluation of some men, which they believe violates 1 Timothy 2:12. I disagree and I need to remain steeled against the unpleasantness this brings up, even if we are friendly -- it's in this sense that I mean "hard" feelings. And then I do agree entirely that good intentions don't lessen impacts on victims. The folks who don't want me to teach have good intentions, measured one way, and that's not really relevant. The folks who tell girls not to take AP calc because it's too hard and they won't need it have ~good intentions, but that's irrelevant. The folks who think I'll naturally be nurturing and try to give me some cuddly job with young children have good intentions but they're scarring me and the kids for life. The folks who pass over a woman for a promotion because they think she should focus on her family have good intentions, but she's out the cash and the accrued interest and career advancement for the rest of her life. You're thinking about how we deal emotionally with good intentions, while the above poster is thinking about the money that's gone, the job that disappeared, the promotion that didn't happen, the mortgage whose interest rate was 2 percentage points higher.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y ago
  I think the relevant difference here is "intended meaning" vs. "intended/assumed values". Understanding the other's intentions resolves the problem when you interpreted what they said differently than what they intended you to understand - it's essentially a communication failure. Understanding that someone considers chopping your limbs off a kind thing to do, though, does not change anything about the fact that you would probably consider that to be more at the evil end of the spectrum--all it might do would be to shift your anger from their specific action to their general stupidity for not recognizing that people obviously do express that they do feel hurt when you chop their limbs off.
- wpietri 13y ago
  > I have dealt with men & women from very conservative backgrounds who honestly and with great love believe I should not do what I do for a living, because it involves public speaking and evaluation of some men, which they believe violates 1 Timothy 2:12. Every time I think I have a handle on how crazy people are, boom, a trap door opens. I'm sorry that you have to deal with nonsense like that. But I appreciate you mentioning it.

kaitai 13y ago

On a personal and emotional level, I agree with you: once I learn it's a misunderstanding and no harm was intended, I often stop feeling angry. Even if I'm no longer angry per se some hard feelings may remain. I have dealt with men & women from very conservative backgrounds who honestly and with great love believe I should not do what I do for a living, because it involves public speaking and evaluation of some men, which they believe violates 1 Timothy 2:12. I disagree and I need to remain steeled against the unpleasantness this brings up, even if we are friendly -- it's in this sense that I mean "hard" feelings. And then I do agree entirely that good intentions don't lessen impacts on victims. The folks who don't want me to teach have good intentions, measured one way, and that's not really relevant. The folks who tell girls not to take AP calc because it's too hard and they won't need it have ~good intentions, but that's irrelevant. The folks who think I'll naturally be nurturing and try to give me some cuddly job with young children have good intentions but they're scarring me and the kids for life. The folks who pass over a woman for a promotion because they think she should focus on her family have good intentions, but she's out the cash and the accrued interest and career advancement for the rest of her life. You're thinking about how we deal emotionally with good intentions, while the above poster is thinking about the money that's gone, the job that disappeared, the promotion that didn't happen, the mortgage whose interest rate was 2 percentage points higher.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y ago
I think the relevant difference here is "intended meaning" vs. "intended/assumed values". Understanding the other's intentions resolves the problem when you interpreted what they said differently than what they intended you to understand - it's essentially a communication failure. Understanding that someone considers chopping your limbs off a kind thing to do, though, does not change anything about the fact that you would probably consider that to be more at the evil end of the spectrum--all it might do would be to shift your anger from their specific action to their general stupidity for not recognizing that people obviously do express that they do feel hurt when you chop their limbs off.
wpietri 13y ago
> I have dealt with men & women from very conservative backgrounds who honestly and with great love believe I should not do what I do for a living, because it involves public speaking and evaluation of some men, which they believe violates 1 Timothy 2:12. Every time I think I have a handle on how crazy people are, boom, a trap door opens. I'm sorry that you have to deal with nonsense like that. But I appreciate you mentioning it.