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I'm a woman who is new to hacker news. I've been told I have to be on this thing if I ever want to apply for YC. I don't know if I'll ever do that but I don't

by _tlf7 12y ago

I'm a woman who is new to hacker news. I've been told I have to be on this thing if I ever want to apply for YC. I don't know if I'll ever do that but I don't want to ruin that opportunity. I've been reading through all these comments and a lot of them make me sick to my stomach. Articles that surround women in the work force interest me because my startup is in this space, but at what cost of my sanity do I have to put up with all these sexist comments to have value to this community?

dang 12y ago
I'm very sorry. Many of these comments have made me sick to my stomach, too. And also ashamed. (I'm one of the moderators of HN.) You don't have to be active on HN to apply for YC. There's a technical requirement to have an account, just because YC's software systems were built that way, but there's definitely no requirement beyond that. I hope you'll participate, but if this has been your introduction to the "community" I can understand why you might not want to.
- abracar 12y ago
  Thanks for saying that. Still, it may not be how applicants see it. For instance my take from PG's "How to apply" (http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html) was that posting here could definitely be a plus — and that's one of the reasons why your role is so important. I know sama mentioned improving the quality of HN comments as part of the roadmap for YC to get to fund more women and I couldn't agree more.
- _tlf7 12y ago
  thanks for this info. Still new to this site and I'd like to be more active in the community but it's good to know it's not a strict requirement.
Mz 12y ago
I just tweeted you with a link to my blog because it was the only contact info in your profile. HN used to be a lot rougher. I probably have the second highest karma of any openly female member. I used to get badly raked over the coals. I think a) yeah, there is room for improvement on HN b) I have been in even worse sexist business/professional situations, so it took me a while to connect the dots and realize it was a sexism thing. So I think you probably do need a thick skin and more savvy about how to deal with such things if you are going to make it in business. This is really not that horrible, in the grand scheme of things. Sorry you are having some trouble with it. (I would have emailed you these remarks, but, again, no ready means to do so.)
- _tlf7 12y ago
  thank you! I got your tweet-like I said, I'm new to this but I do want to dive into this community. Really appreciate your help!
reitzensteinm 12y ago
You shouldn't participate here just to keep your options for YC open, especially if you don't like the company! At the end of the day, that same amount of effort is going to be better spent directly on your business. For what it's worth, these threads are always train wrecks, and many here avoid participating and even reading because of it. Usually, they just get flagged straight off the front page, though that hasn't happened here. HN hits a lot of high notes, so if you learn to tune out the noise, you'll probably enjoy your stay here much more.
tptacek 12y ago
Something about this topic makes the Internet creepers come out of the woodwork. It seems to be much easier for them to get a charge out of gender-based stories than, say, Java type system debates. What I can tell you as someone who has spent altogether too much time on HN is that for the most part, the people writing the worst comments on these threads are drive-by anonymous trolls, and not serious members of the community. Further, people who have a serious HN presence who contribute to the muck on these threads are, as you can see from the grey cast their comments take, driving themselves into pariah status. You'll notice that even when a creepy comment is written by someone with a lot of karma... they're gonna tend not to have their real names on their profile. There's probably not a whole lot HN can do in the near term to keep hostile, offensive noise off threads like these. Anyone can make an account, and some people keep a whole battery of sockpuppet accounts handy so they can stir shit up on the threads. All I can tell you is that if you feel like you need to stand up for yourself on a thread like this, there are lots of long-time serious people on HN who will have your back. If you don't want to do that, nobody can blame you. Welcome to HN, by the way. Stick around.
- ahh 12y ago
  > Something about this topic makes the Internet creepers come out of the woodwork. It seems to be much easier for them to get a charge out of gender-based stories than, say, Java type system debates. Java type system debates don't usually come with a side of blaming all men (especially low status men like most engineers) for the actions of a few (usually extremely high status) men. I would expect a lot more angry comments on Java typechecking if that topic impacted directly on every man's chance of social and professional livelihood.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    Engineers are low status? Please. That might have true in 1984, when Revenge of the Nerds came out. But it sure isn't now. Also, as a man, I have benefited from literally millennia of people advantaging my gender. If I occasionally get blamed for that, I think I can handle it. Maybe you can too?
- _tlf7 12y ago
mturmon 12y ago
The original article is, clearly, very high-quality and based on a lot of experience. Too much of the community here is unable to have either an intelligent, or empathetic, response to articles like this. Many comments are not even trying to learn something from the OP, which should be the baseline approach. Even a small proportion of these comments can completely derail the thread. They employ a variety of diversionary tactics (probably unconscious!). Like hyper-rational "what if"/"did they consider"/"yes, but" reactions, objections to language in the original post, objections to hypothetical language or attitudes in other places on the internet. I assume that it's a maturity issue, although I've known immature people who have healthier reactions to issues regarding equal treatment in the workplace than the ones here. (Incidentally, before taking these opinions too seriously, it might be funny to peruse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5326511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5326511)
owenversteeg 12y ago
As a HNer of two years, I'd say to take all comments (not just those that are racist or sexist) with a grain of salt is the best thing to do. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [0] applies here as much as anyone else, and many HN comments (not excluding those upvoted to the top) are downright mean, idiotic, or incorrect. Looking at my comment history, I have several points from random, off-the-cuff observations and negative two points from well-thought-out comments that are related to programming. That's HN for you. Of course, there are also fascinating, interesting, and relevant comments posted all the time, or I'd never visit HN. Also, tptacek's comment is very correct. Stories like these seem to light HN on fire. Just look at the front page right now - this story has 100 points more than its closest competitor, and almost as many comments. [0] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

by _tlf7 12y ago

dang 12y ago

I'm very sorry. Many of these comments have made me sick to my stomach, too. And also ashamed. (I'm one of the moderators of HN.) You don't have to be active on HN to apply for YC. There's a technical requirement to have an account, just because YC's software systems were built that way, but there's definitely no requirement beyond that. I hope you'll participate, but if this has been your introduction to the "community" I can understand why you might not want to.

abracar 12y ago
Thanks for saying that. Still, it may not be how applicants see it. For instance my take from PG's "How to apply" (http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html) was that posting here could definitely be a plus — and that's one of the reasons why your role is so important. I know sama mentioned improving the quality of HN comments as part of the roadmap for YC to get to fund more women and I couldn't agree more.
_tlf7 12y ago
thanks for this info. Still new to this site and I'd like to be more active in the community but it's good to know it's not a strict requirement.

Mz 12y ago

I just tweeted you with a link to my blog because it was the only contact info in your profile. HN used to be a lot rougher. I probably have the second highest karma of any openly female member. I used to get badly raked over the coals. I think a) yeah, there is room for improvement on HN b) I have been in even worse sexist business/professional situations, so it took me a while to connect the dots and realize it was a sexism thing. So I think you probably do need a thick skin and more savvy about how to deal with such things if you are going to make it in business. This is really not that horrible, in the grand scheme of things. Sorry you are having some trouble with it. (I would have emailed you these remarks, but, again, no ready means to do so.)

_tlf7 12y ago
thank you! I got your tweet-like I said, I'm new to this but I do want to dive into this community. Really appreciate your help!

reitzensteinm 12y ago

You shouldn't participate here just to keep your options for YC open, especially if you don't like the company! At the end of the day, that same amount of effort is going to be better spent directly on your business. For what it's worth, these threads are always train wrecks, and many here avoid participating and even reading because of it. Usually, they just get flagged straight off the front page, though that hasn't happened here. HN hits a lot of high notes, so if you learn to tune out the noise, you'll probably enjoy your stay here much more.

tptacek 12y ago

Something about this topic makes the Internet creepers come out of the woodwork. It seems to be much easier for them to get a charge out of gender-based stories than, say, Java type system debates. What I can tell you as someone who has spent altogether too much time on HN is that for the most part, the people writing the worst comments on these threads are drive-by anonymous trolls, and not serious members of the community. Further, people who have a serious HN presence who contribute to the muck on these threads are, as you can see from the grey cast their comments take, driving themselves into pariah status. You'll notice that even when a creepy comment is written by someone with a lot of karma... they're gonna tend not to have their real names on their profile. There's probably not a whole lot HN can do in the near term to keep hostile, offensive noise off threads like these. Anyone can make an account, and some people keep a whole battery of sockpuppet accounts handy so they can stir shit up on the threads. All I can tell you is that if you feel like you need to stand up for yourself on a thread like this, there are lots of long-time serious people on HN who will have your back. If you don't want to do that, nobody can blame you. Welcome to HN, by the way. Stick around.

ahh 12y ago
> Something about this topic makes the Internet creepers come out of the woodwork. It seems to be much easier for them to get a charge out of gender-based stories than, say, Java type system debates. Java type system debates don't usually come with a side of blaming all men (especially low status men like most engineers) for the actions of a few (usually extremely high status) men. I would expect a lot more angry comments on Java typechecking if that topic impacted directly on every man's chance of social and professional livelihood.
- wpietri 12y ago
  Engineers are low status? Please. That might have true in 1984, when Revenge of the Nerds came out. But it sure isn't now. Also, as a man, I have benefited from literally millennia of people advantaging my gender. If I occasionally get blamed for that, I think I can handle it. Maybe you can too?
_tlf7 12y ago

mturmon 12y ago

The original article is, clearly, very high-quality and based on a lot of experience. Too much of the community here is unable to have either an intelligent, or empathetic, response to articles like this. Many comments are not even trying to learn something from the OP, which should be the baseline approach. Even a small proportion of these comments can completely derail the thread. They employ a variety of diversionary tactics (probably unconscious!). Like hyper-rational "what if"/"did they consider"/"yes, but" reactions, objections to language in the original post, objections to hypothetical language or attitudes in other places on the internet. I assume that it's a maturity issue, although I've known immature people who have healthier reactions to issues regarding equal treatment in the workplace than the ones here. (Incidentally, before taking these opinions too seriously, it might be funny to peruse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5326511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5326511)

owenversteeg 12y ago

As a HNer of two years, I'd say to take all comments (not just those that are racist or sexist) with a grain of salt is the best thing to do. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [0] applies here as much as anyone else, and many HN comments (not excluding those upvoted to the top) are downright mean, idiotic, or incorrect. Looking at my comment history, I have several points from random, off-the-cuff observations and negative two points from well-thought-out comments that are related to programming. That's HN for you. Of course, there are also fascinating, interesting, and relevant comments posted all the time, or I'd never visit HN. Also, tptacek's comment is very correct. Stories like these seem to light HN on fire. Just look at the front page right now - this story has 100 points more than its closest competitor, and almost as many comments. [0] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19