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Attractive woman are going to have such problems as a matter of course. Men are attracted to woman primarily based on their looks and confident men are going to

Attractive woman are going to have such problems as a matter of course. Men are attracted to woman primarily based on their looks and confident men are going to act on their desires. If you are an attractive woman and want to do business under such potential circumstance, then your best bet is to try to make yourself look unattractive. You can't have it both ways. You can't lure a client with your looks and then always expect totally platonic behavior from them. And if instead, you just want to pin all the blame on men for being pigs and expect them to change, well good luck with that. Mother Nature quite clearly has other designs.

fmdud 13y ago
Sorry, this is a pretty fucking horrible comment. >You can't lure a client with your looks >And if instead, you just want to pin all the blame on men for being pigs and expect them to change, well good luck with that. It's perfectly reasonable to expect men to not commit sexual assault in the workplace. What world are you living in where anything like this is remotely acceptable?
- pekk 13y ago
  You are right that it's a completely horrible comment. But even so, where did he say that we should expect men to "commit sexual assault" in the workplace? Flirting with someone or asking them to coffee is not sexual assault, though it is inappropriate for the workplace.
  - fmdud 13y ago
    I've seen this argument so many times at this point they blur into one. It's a watered down version of "She was asking for it" when talking about about a rape case. The way someone looks or the clothes they have on doesn't give you carte blanche to harass/assault them. I'll show you what I mean: >If you are an attractive woman and want to do business under such potential circumstance, then your best bet is to try to make yourself look unattractive. This is the exact same kind of victim blaming as in "She was asking for it". He's telling women to make themselves look unattractive, implying that they are partially to blame for their own harassment because of what they were wearing, or how they looked. Saying "well, it's bound to happen" isn't good enough. >You can't have it both ways. >And if instead, you just want to pin all the blame on men for being pigs and expect them to change, well good luck with that. These two quotes both show that he really is talking about harassment and assault. The OP article wasn't talking about relatively harmless (if inappropriate) workplace flirting; some couples meet at work. That happens. The difference is that those kind of things generally begin with very subtle signals over an extended period of time. The context of this article, this thread, and implicitly this comment (by explicitly agreeing that women are asking for this harassment to stop) is one of harassment and assault. >You can't lure a client with your looks and then always expect totally platonic behavior from them. >Mother Nature quite clearly has other designs. I don't need to break this down. It's so shitty.
    - cube_yellow 13y ago
      If I stand in the middle of a street, I can reasonably expect that drivers will be aware enough to slow down and not hit me, but if some idiot on his cell phone hits me, it's reasonable to ask why I was standing in the middle of the street. Encouraging women to be conscious of themselves, their bodies, and office dynamics is the same thing as kinda-sorta enforcing a no-jaywalking policy. No, it's not exactly your "fault" if you get hit, but we make (lenient) rules to prevent you from being hurt by idiots.
slurry 13y ago
>Attractive woman are going to have such problems as a matter of course. Men are attracted to woman primarily based on their looks People are attracted to all kinds of things. Go out to a big box store in an unfashionable suburb some weekend and look at the couples walking around. It's not as if The Real America is living in a PUA utopia where only attractive people find a mate. All kinds of facial and body types are walking around with each other. If people can pair with unconventional types, they find them attractive enough. Some people will harass what they find attractive. Therefore some people will harass non-conventionally attractive people. Which is a long way of saying, by no means will conventionally attractive women be the only ones to find themselves receiving such harassment. This pretty much defeats the purpose of the rest of your comment. >and confident men are going to act on their desires. What do we mean by "act on their desires?"[0] There is enough ambiguity to drive a rather alarming truck through. [0] http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/take_back.gif http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/take_bac...

fmdud 13y ago

Sorry, this is a pretty fucking horrible comment. >You can't lure a client with your looks >And if instead, you just want to pin all the blame on men for being pigs and expect them to change, well good luck with that. It's perfectly reasonable to expect men to not commit sexual assault in the workplace. What world are you living in where anything like this is remotely acceptable?

pekk 13y ago
You are right that it's a completely horrible comment. But even so, where did he say that we should expect men to "commit sexual assault" in the workplace? Flirting with someone or asking them to coffee is not sexual assault, though it is inappropriate for the workplace.
- fmdud 13y ago
  I've seen this argument so many times at this point they blur into one. It's a watered down version of "She was asking for it" when talking about about a rape case. The way someone looks or the clothes they have on doesn't give you carte blanche to harass/assault them. I'll show you what I mean: >If you are an attractive woman and want to do business under such potential circumstance, then your best bet is to try to make yourself look unattractive. This is the exact same kind of victim blaming as in "She was asking for it". He's telling women to make themselves look unattractive, implying that they are partially to blame for their own harassment because of what they were wearing, or how they looked. Saying "well, it's bound to happen" isn't good enough. >You can't have it both ways. >And if instead, you just want to pin all the blame on men for being pigs and expect them to change, well good luck with that. These two quotes both show that he really is talking about harassment and assault. The OP article wasn't talking about relatively harmless (if inappropriate) workplace flirting; some couples meet at work. That happens. The difference is that those kind of things generally begin with very subtle signals over an extended period of time. The context of this article, this thread, and implicitly this comment (by explicitly agreeing that women are asking for this harassment to stop) is one of harassment and assault. >You can't lure a client with your looks and then always expect totally platonic behavior from them. >Mother Nature quite clearly has other designs. I don't need to break this down. It's so shitty.
  - cube_yellow 13y ago
    If I stand in the middle of a street, I can reasonably expect that drivers will be aware enough to slow down and not hit me, but if some idiot on his cell phone hits me, it's reasonable to ask why I was standing in the middle of the street. Encouraging women to be conscious of themselves, their bodies, and office dynamics is the same thing as kinda-sorta enforcing a no-jaywalking policy. No, it's not exactly your "fault" if you get hit, but we make (lenient) rules to prevent you from being hurt by idiots.

slurry 13y ago

>Attractive woman are going to have such problems as a matter of course. Men are attracted to woman primarily based on their looks People are attracted to all kinds of things. Go out to a big box store in an unfashionable suburb some weekend and look at the couples walking around. It's not as if The Real America is living in a PUA utopia where only attractive people find a mate. All kinds of facial and body types are walking around with each other. If people can pair with unconventional types, they find them attractive enough. Some people will harass what they find attractive. Therefore some people will harass non-conventionally attractive people. Which is a long way of saying, by no means will conventionally attractive women be the only ones to find themselves receiving such harassment. This pretty much defeats the purpose of the rest of your comment. >and confident men are going to act on their desires. What do we mean by "act on their desires?"[0] There is enough ambiguity to drive a rather alarming truck through. [0] http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/take_back.gif http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/take_bac...