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You should look at the case involved before commenting on the legitimacy of the case. From the Kickstarter comments. > There were tons of backers investigating

by Guvante 12y ago

You should look at the case involved before commenting on the legitimacy of the case. From the Kickstarter comments. > There were tons of backers investigating the life of ~REDACTED~ and his company Altius Management, especially after the artist reached out and told us that he never got a cent, and the US Playing Card Company said that they had never heard of the guy. This was a case of selling customized playing cards through a well known company, it was a very low risk venture and he failed to make (assuming that quote is accurate) even minimal attempts to create what he started the Kickstarter for. This wasn't even a "we screwed up and decided to give up early" it was a "lol thanks for the free $25k".

iandanforth 12y ago
No, no, no. I agree with you. Fraud is fraud, I'm just saying this is the wrong law to use, and the outcome a successful prosecution under this law is uniquely troublesome for kickstarter.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  How is it the wrong law to use? It seems to be exactly the law designed to address the kind of commercial fraud alleged. The troubling thing for kickstarter is a result of the fact that kickstarter bothv wants buyers not to see backing a project as a simple pre-order but simultaneous wants to create exactly the kind of obligation that exists with a pre-order and use it to reassure backers. (And given that that is the only thing backers get, there's pretty much no way for kickstarter to work without getting downed in outright take the money and run scheme without that kind of obligation.)
- pessimizer 12y ago
  It's not fraud because Kickstarter is not a store? The project creator made a promise to deliver. I'm not sure how Kickstarter's TOS (repeating that they have a responsibility to deliver, but that Kickstarter isn't a party to the contract and can't enforce it) immunizes them against their own obligations. I've sold things on message boards, which are also not stores. If I didn't deliver, why shouldn't I be prosecuted under the same law?
  - lmm 12y ago
    > It's not fraud because Kickstarter is not a store? It's fraud, but it's not commerce, so this is the wrong law to use. > I've sold things on message boards, which are also not stores. If I didn't deliver, why shouldn't I be prosecuted under the same law? Because people on message boards know they're not buying from a store and can't expect the same level of state consumer protection, and it's not in the states interest to expend resources on protecting message board buyers. If you didn't deliver you'd be breaking the law and the people who bought things would be able to sue you, but I wouldn't expect the state AG to go after you.
crag 12y ago
In other words, it was a con.

by Guvante 12y ago

iandanforth 12y ago

No, no, no. I agree with you. Fraud is fraud, I'm just saying this is the wrong law to use, and the outcome a successful prosecution under this law is uniquely troublesome for kickstarter.

dragonwriter 12y ago
How is it the wrong law to use? It seems to be exactly the law designed to address the kind of commercial fraud alleged. The troubling thing for kickstarter is a result of the fact that kickstarter bothv wants buyers not to see backing a project as a simple pre-order but simultaneous wants to create exactly the kind of obligation that exists with a pre-order and use it to reassure backers. (And given that that is the only thing backers get, there's pretty much no way for kickstarter to work without getting downed in outright take the money and run scheme without that kind of obligation.)
pessimizer 12y ago
It's not fraud because Kickstarter is not a store? The project creator made a promise to deliver. I'm not sure how Kickstarter's TOS (repeating that they have a responsibility to deliver, but that Kickstarter isn't a party to the contract and can't enforce it) immunizes them against their own obligations. I've sold things on message boards, which are also not stores. If I didn't deliver, why shouldn't I be prosecuted under the same law?
- lmm 12y ago
  > It's not fraud because Kickstarter is not a store? It's fraud, but it's not commerce, so this is the wrong law to use. > I've sold things on message boards, which are also not stores. If I didn't deliver, why shouldn't I be prosecuted under the same law? Because people on message boards know they're not buying from a store and can't expect the same level of state consumer protection, and it's not in the states interest to expend resources on protecting message board buyers. If you didn't deliver you'd be breaking the law and the people who bought things would be able to sue you, but I wouldn't expect the state AG to go after you.

crag 12y ago

In other words, it was a con.