7 ms·

That is not the big takeaway. The big takeaway is that straight white men's privilege gives them an advantage over everybody else since they face fewer obstacl

by guelo 13y ago

That is not the big takeaway. The big takeaway is that straight white men's privilege gives them an advantage over everybody else since they face fewer obstacles such as having their hands forced onto a penis while closing a business deal.

drumdance 13y ago
Not that I'm justifying it, but I wonder if the deal would even have gotten to the closing table if Heidi had been male?
- danudey 13y ago
  If we assume that it was going to go through if she was receptive to the deal, then it's probably safe to assume that it would have gone through otherwise. It's not good business sense to make a bad business deal just to get someone to touch your junk. If you're working for a large company with lots of money, you either find women yourself or find a way pay for them on the company card.
  - drumdance 13y ago
    Oh I agree completely that sexual attraction shouldn't be the reason for a bad deal, but OTOH consider that there are a lot of very attractive women in sales who are able to subtly use that attraction as leverage. Not that they promise sex or anything remotely that overt, only that a lot of men think with the wrong head and will go out of their way to please an attractive woman. That includes signing a deal they may not sign otherwise. I don't fault women for this state of affairs.
teacup50 13y ago
> straight white men's privilege The article didn't actually include the man's race.
- jacalata 13y ago
  yea, but it did say she was dealing with VCs 10 years ago, so an educated person can make a pretty confident guess.
  - teacup50 13y ago
    I hope you can see the racism inherent in your "confident guess". "yea, but it did say she was dealing with [community organizers] 10 years ago, so an educated person can make a pretty confident guess." "yea, but it did say she was dealing with [an H1B immigrant] 10 years ago, so an educated person can make a pretty confident guess."
    - grlhgr420 13y ago
      racism requires the assumption of a power dynamic that subjugates the recipient. eg a white guy being called a cracker doesn't resonate with the kinds of cultural practices of oppression that that using racial slurs against a minority carries. it's disingenuous and completely misses the point to equate racism with any time the concept of race is brought up
      - teacup50 13y ago
        Tell me how it's not racist to think that all "white guys" are sitting in the better end of a power dynamic when called "a cracker"? Subsets of academia focused on "critical race theory" might try to redefine "racism" to suite their specific agenda, but I'm content with the dictionary definition: "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
        zorpner 13y ago
        Retreating to a dictionary definition doesn't argue against the point of the GP comment, namely: a white guy being called a cracker doesn't resonate with the kinds of cultural practices of oppression that that using racial slurs against a minority carries If you're interested in arguing against that, do so. Posting definitions of words from dictionaries is the height of pedantic laziness in non sequitur form (unless the argument is actually about what the dictionary definition of a word is, of course).
jamesaguilar 13y ago
Totally agree. It's always sad to see the response to this type of news on Hacker News. It inevitably immediately becomes something that is no longer about the problems women face, but a defense of the men. Like, how can you read the article and come back and say, "The big takeaway is, don't get mad at me if I'm just being a guy, because I mean well." What weird heuristic did you use to take the article as being primarily about you and the risk that you might be misperceived? That is not what it is about.
_tlf7 13y ago
exactly
mafribe 13y ago
Men live substantially shorter than women, men commit vastly more suicides, men are punished substantially harder than women in courts of law. Men are drafted to armies. Men get their children stolen in divorce cases. Men work vastly harder on average. Consequently men get paid much worse on average for the same amount of work than women. Men pay the majority of taxes, women get the majority of social services. Men are the majority of homeless. Almost all who live in forced celibacy (a form of forced sexuality) are male. Male homosexuality is vastly harder punished than female homosexuality. It is objectively much harder being male than being female.

by guelo 13y ago

drumdance 13y ago

Not that I'm justifying it, but I wonder if the deal would even have gotten to the closing table if Heidi had been male?

danudey 13y ago
If we assume that it was going to go through if she was receptive to the deal, then it's probably safe to assume that it would have gone through otherwise. It's not good business sense to make a bad business deal just to get someone to touch your junk. If you're working for a large company with lots of money, you either find women yourself or find a way pay for them on the company card.
- drumdance 13y ago
  Oh I agree completely that sexual attraction shouldn't be the reason for a bad deal, but OTOH consider that there are a lot of very attractive women in sales who are able to subtly use that attraction as leverage. Not that they promise sex or anything remotely that overt, only that a lot of men think with the wrong head and will go out of their way to please an attractive woman. That includes signing a deal they may not sign otherwise. I don't fault women for this state of affairs.

teacup50 13y ago

> straight white men's privilege The article didn't actually include the man's race.

jacalata 13y ago
yea, but it did say she was dealing with VCs 10 years ago, so an educated person can make a pretty confident guess.
- teacup50 13y ago
  I hope you can see the racism inherent in your "confident guess". "yea, but it did say she was dealing with [community organizers] 10 years ago, so an educated person can make a pretty confident guess." "yea, but it did say she was dealing with [an H1B immigrant] 10 years ago, so an educated person can make a pretty confident guess."
  - grlhgr420 13y ago
    racism requires the assumption of a power dynamic that subjugates the recipient. eg a white guy being called a cracker doesn't resonate with the kinds of cultural practices of oppression that that using racial slurs against a minority carries. it's disingenuous and completely misses the point to equate racism with any time the concept of race is brought up
    - teacup50 13y ago
      Tell me how it's not racist to think that all "white guys" are sitting in the better end of a power dynamic when called "a cracker"? Subsets of academia focused on "critical race theory" might try to redefine "racism" to suite their specific agenda, but I'm content with the dictionary definition: "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
      - zorpner 13y ago
        Retreating to a dictionary definition doesn't argue against the point of the GP comment, namely: a white guy being called a cracker doesn't resonate with the kinds of cultural practices of oppression that that using racial slurs against a minority carries If you're interested in arguing against that, do so. Posting definitions of words from dictionaries is the height of pedantic laziness in non sequitur form (unless the argument is actually about what the dictionary definition of a word is, of course).

jamesaguilar 13y ago

Totally agree. It's always sad to see the response to this type of news on Hacker News. It inevitably immediately becomes something that is no longer about the problems women face, but a defense of the men. Like, how can you read the article and come back and say, "The big takeaway is, don't get mad at me if I'm just being a guy, because I mean well." What weird heuristic did you use to take the article as being primarily about you and the risk that you might be misperceived? That is not what it is about.

_tlf7 13y ago

exactly

mafribe 13y ago

Men live substantially shorter than women, men commit vastly more suicides, men are punished substantially harder than women in courts of law. Men are drafted to armies. Men get their children stolen in divorce cases. Men work vastly harder on average. Consequently men get paid much worse on average for the same amount of work than women. Men pay the majority of taxes, women get the majority of social services. Men are the majority of homeless. Almost all who live in forced celibacy (a form of forced sexuality) are male. Male homosexuality is vastly harder punished than female homosexuality. It is objectively much harder being male than being female.