6 ms·

Learning how to stick with it.

22 points by gcheong 19y ago

I've heard it said time and time again that one key factor between those who succeed as entrepreneurs and those who fail is that those who fail give up too soon, but I've not seen very many suggestions given on how people can develop the "stick with it" trait - it just seems to be taken for granted that you either have it or you don't. Fortunately current reseach in psychology seems to suggest that this can actually be learned. Here are a couple guides for anyone interested: Learned Optimism by Martin Seligman The Resilience Factor by Karen Revich and Andrew Shatte Mindset by Carolyn Dweck I would even go so far as to suggest that this kind of material, and perhaps even some training, be incorporated into the Y-combinator program. Perhaps even a study could be conducted?

raju 19y ago
gcheong... Thank you for the book list. The Resilience Factor looks especially interesting. Just ordered it from my local library. Nice to know that it can be learned. Was getting a little frustrated with my (moonlighting) start-up effort.
pg 19y ago
It can be learned, but I don't think books are the way to learn it. From what I've seen, what makes people tougher is facing challenges.
- nostrademons 19y ago
  I'd agree with that, and add that a crucial part of it is being part of a community and unwilling to let your friends down. It's really easy to flake when success just means that you make somebody else rich. It's much harder when you bought into the values of the community at the outset and everyone else is counting on you to pull through. For college students, that probably means joining an open-source project. And get to the point where you have people-yell-at-you responsibility; there's a big difference between contributing patches as you feel like it and being responsible when some user's stuff breaks. For people just entering the job market, spend the time to find a job you really believe in and want to make happen. This is something I would've done differently if I had to do it all over again. I chose my job knowing that I was there for learning: there were some areas where I knew I didn't really agree with my boss, but I felt that the best way to learn is to have one's preconceptions challenged. It worked for about a year, but then I still disagreed with my boss, and each point of disagreement became an excuse to quit instead of a potential learning experience. In retrospect, I think I would've learned more had I bought into the company's mission from the start and every stumbling block been an inherent difficulty of the problem rather than an artifact of how we were solving it. For startup founders, get yourself a cofounder. I ain't quitting as long as my cofounder is still game, and maybe not even then...
  - dean 19y ago
    I think what you're really talking about is commitment. Personally, I find I can "stick with it" and persevere much more easily if I'm committed to something. Maybe those startups in Ycombinator that give up are not totally committed. When things start to get tough, maybe they begin looking for other options. If there were no other options, their commitment would be stronger. The so-called "burning the boats" strategy. I think that's why it's so hard to do a startup in your spare time, while holding down a full-time job. It's not really a commitment and that makes it so much easier to give up.
- gcheong 19y ago
  I am not suggesting that books can replace facing challenges. I am suggesting that there is an area of research (positive psychology - yes it's real) that is determining what the cognitive processes are between people who persevere in facing challenges and consequently become stronger and those who give up too soon and consequently become less able to face future challenges, and that these cognitive processes can be learned and there are some fairly specific tools available to learn them. I have read several times in your own writing that one main cause of startup failure is giving up too soon. Well, what do you see as the difference between those who give up too soon and those who do not and what can we do to get the former group into the latter? I think that is a better question to explore than the mere observation that some quit sooner than others.
jy640 19y ago
I've heard about the Resilience Factor recommended somewhere else as well. I'm on my way to Amazon as soon as I get paid!
nmeyer 19y ago
Just watch a Nike commercial.
theorique 19y ago
Carol Dweck discusses her mindset research in this podcast. Well worth a listen. http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail1011.html http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail1011.html
goodgoblin 19y ago
I think its dangerous to try and trick your mind into thinking something isn't as hard as it is. When you get depressed or exhausted - take a break. Just don't quit. Also - another reason have a co-founder is a must - someone to make it fun, someone to show your latest coding exploit until the millions of users figure out how cool it is. Having someone else around makes it alot easier to keep going. Also - I've found taking an investment from friends and family, even if its a small one, makes it much harder to quit. You don't want to let them down/embarrass yourself/pay them back :)
davidw 19y ago
I thought this week's advice was "know when to throw in the towel", or was it "fail fast" ? Kidding aside, if you felt those books have a few points worth sharing, I would love it if you took a moment to write a brief summary for squeezedbooks.com .
brlewis 19y ago
Is there anything in this material that would be interesting to someone who already has the "stick with it" trait?
sammyo 19y ago
Remeber the 'Crazy Uncle Charlie' factor. There are folks that chase after one hairbrained scheme after another, never quite hitting the big time. Resilience is vital, yet not sufficient.
bootload 19y ago
"... one key factor between those who succeed as entrepreneurs and those who fail is that those who fail give up too soon, but I've not seen very many suggestions given on how people can develop the "stick with it" trait ..." You can learn resilience - you have to know and explore your limitations, physically & psychologically. Then push hard! For me there are a number of things to learn though. A combination of both psychological and physical skills. For the psychology I use techniques that can be summarised in 1 line: SDNT CVS2OBVS QRH PRR They are really just a series of techniques to get you pointing in the right direction. It is probably one of the most underused skill-set I picked up in some training [0] in the first startup I worked for. - SDNT: Start, Do, Notice, Think - CVS2BVS: Current view of Situation 2 Best View of Situation - QRH: Quality, Recognition. Humour - PRR: Practice Repetition Rehearsal A simple toolbox to overcome obstacles. Most revolve around questioning assumptions, finding out what is going on by observation then executing on what is important. [1] The key insight I gain usually is perspective. Change perspective and you can see things in a different more positive light. Then work out where you need to go and execute. The physical side should not be forgotten. You live in a physical world. Ignore it and it will impact you just as much as the psychological world. For this I keep reasonable fitness and undertake physical challenges like climbing that hill over there ~ http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/tags/mtdandenong http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/tags/mtdandenong or see how far you can walk before you succumb to hunger or fatigue. Half your battle is going to be the physical world you work in. You may as well know how resilient you are by pushing yourself physically and see how you cope [2] For me, resilience a combination of both physical stamina and the skills and confidence you develop, used in conjunction with simple psychology techniques. Combining them allows you to guide your mind, keep it questioning, on track and doing what needs to be done. [0] http://www.schoolofthinking.org/who/who-dr-michael-hewitt-gleeson/ http://www.schoolofthinking.org/who/who-dr-michael-hewitt-gl... [1] Download the book for more details ~ http://www.schoolofthinking.org/software.pdf http://www.schoolofthinking.org/software.pdf [2] http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/252138977 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/252138977

22 points by gcheong 19y ago

raju 19y ago

gcheong... Thank you for the book list. The Resilience Factor looks especially interesting. Just ordered it from my local library. Nice to know that it can be learned. Was getting a little frustrated with my (moonlighting) start-up effort.

pg 19y ago

It can be learned, but I don't think books are the way to learn it. From what I've seen, what makes people tougher is facing challenges.

nostrademons 19y ago
I'd agree with that, and add that a crucial part of it is being part of a community and unwilling to let your friends down. It's really easy to flake when success just means that you make somebody else rich. It's much harder when you bought into the values of the community at the outset and everyone else is counting on you to pull through. For college students, that probably means joining an open-source project. And get to the point where you have people-yell-at-you responsibility; there's a big difference between contributing patches as you feel like it and being responsible when some user's stuff breaks. For people just entering the job market, spend the time to find a job you really believe in and want to make happen. This is something I would've done differently if I had to do it all over again. I chose my job knowing that I was there for learning: there were some areas where I knew I didn't really agree with my boss, but I felt that the best way to learn is to have one's preconceptions challenged. It worked for about a year, but then I still disagreed with my boss, and each point of disagreement became an excuse to quit instead of a potential learning experience. In retrospect, I think I would've learned more had I bought into the company's mission from the start and every stumbling block been an inherent difficulty of the problem rather than an artifact of how we were solving it. For startup founders, get yourself a cofounder. I ain't quitting as long as my cofounder is still game, and maybe not even then...
- dean 19y ago
  I think what you're really talking about is commitment. Personally, I find I can "stick with it" and persevere much more easily if I'm committed to something. Maybe those startups in Ycombinator that give up are not totally committed. When things start to get tough, maybe they begin looking for other options. If there were no other options, their commitment would be stronger. The so-called "burning the boats" strategy. I think that's why it's so hard to do a startup in your spare time, while holding down a full-time job. It's not really a commitment and that makes it so much easier to give up.
gcheong 19y ago
I am not suggesting that books can replace facing challenges. I am suggesting that there is an area of research (positive psychology - yes it's real) that is determining what the cognitive processes are between people who persevere in facing challenges and consequently become stronger and those who give up too soon and consequently become less able to face future challenges, and that these cognitive processes can be learned and there are some fairly specific tools available to learn them. I have read several times in your own writing that one main cause of startup failure is giving up too soon. Well, what do you see as the difference between those who give up too soon and those who do not and what can we do to get the former group into the latter? I think that is a better question to explore than the mere observation that some quit sooner than others.

jy640 19y ago

I've heard about the Resilience Factor recommended somewhere else as well. I'm on my way to Amazon as soon as I get paid!

nmeyer 19y ago

Just watch a Nike commercial.

theorique 19y ago

Carol Dweck discusses her mindset research in this podcast. Well worth a listen. http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail1011.html http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail1011.html

goodgoblin 19y ago

I think its dangerous to try and trick your mind into thinking something isn't as hard as it is. When you get depressed or exhausted - take a break. Just don't quit. Also - another reason have a co-founder is a must - someone to make it fun, someone to show your latest coding exploit until the millions of users figure out how cool it is. Having someone else around makes it alot easier to keep going. Also - I've found taking an investment from friends and family, even if its a small one, makes it much harder to quit. You don't want to let them down/embarrass yourself/pay them back :)

davidw 19y ago

I thought this week's advice was "know when to throw in the towel", or was it "fail fast" ? Kidding aside, if you felt those books have a few points worth sharing, I would love it if you took a moment to write a brief summary for squeezedbooks.com .

brlewis 19y ago

Is there anything in this material that would be interesting to someone who already has the "stick with it" trait?

sammyo 19y ago

Remeber the 'Crazy Uncle Charlie' factor. There are folks that chase after one hairbrained scheme after another, never quite hitting the big time. Resilience is vital, yet not sufficient.

bootload 19y ago

"... one key factor between those who succeed as entrepreneurs and those who fail is that those who fail give up too soon, but I've not seen very many suggestions given on how people can develop the "stick with it" trait ..." You can learn resilience - you have to know and explore your limitations, physically & psychologically. Then push hard! For me there are a number of things to learn though. A combination of both psychological and physical skills. For the psychology I use techniques that can be summarised in 1 line: SDNT CVS2OBVS QRH PRR They are really just a series of techniques to get you pointing in the right direction. It is probably one of the most underused skill-set I picked up in some training [0] in the first startup I worked for. - SDNT: Start, Do, Notice, Think - CVS2BVS: Current view of Situation 2 Best View of Situation - QRH: Quality, Recognition. Humour - PRR: Practice Repetition Rehearsal A simple toolbox to overcome obstacles. Most revolve around questioning assumptions, finding out what is going on by observation then executing on what is important. [1] The key insight I gain usually is perspective. Change perspective and you can see things in a different more positive light. Then work out where you need to go and execute. The physical side should not be forgotten. You live in a physical world. Ignore it and it will impact you just as much as the psychological world. For this I keep reasonable fitness and undertake physical challenges like climbing that hill over there ~ http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/tags/mtdandenong http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/tags/mtdandenong or see how far you can walk before you succumb to hunger or fatigue. Half your battle is going to be the physical world you work in. You may as well know how resilient you are by pushing yourself physically and see how you cope [2] For me, resilience a combination of both physical stamina and the skills and confidence you develop, used in conjunction with simple psychology techniques. Combining them allows you to guide your mind, keep it questioning, on track and doing what needs to be done. [0] http://www.schoolofthinking.org/who/who-dr-michael-hewitt-gleeson/ http://www.schoolofthinking.org/who/who-dr-michael-hewitt-gl... [1] Download the book for more details ~ http://www.schoolofthinking.org/software.pdf http://www.schoolofthinking.org/software.pdf [2] http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/252138977 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/252138977