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Need a lawyer-ish person to help me with this: So SpaceX has an open lawsuit against the US Government for the awarding of a contract to a joint partnership be

by TheBiv 12y ago

Need a lawyer-ish person to help me with this: So SpaceX has an open lawsuit against the US Government for the awarding of a contract to a joint partnership between Lockheed/Boeing, and now SpaceX is granted the legal ability for the courts to stop the Lockheed/Boeing partnership from entering into any rocket-buying agreement with a Russian company. How can this injunction bar Lockheed/Boeing partnership from performing this seemingly separate business transaction? (More to the point, I mean, a separate business transaction that Lockheed/Boeing could 'claim' was unrelated to the government award) Does it have anything to do with the fact that Lockheed/Boeing created this new company (Open Launch thing) which technically won the contract and presumably is the entity making the purchase to this Russian company?

pmorici 12y ago
The way I read it there are two separate issues. One is the fact that the launch contract wasn't competed. The other is that the US decided to put sanctions on Russia over Ukraine and those sanctions cover entities that have an interest in the Russian company these engine components are being bought from by the American companies. The court is basically saying that by buying that engine part from the Russian company that might violate the economic sanctions. Sounds like the injunction is only preliminary. Then you've got some congress people who realize this is a PR nightmare so they proposed a new spending program to develop a new rocket engine that doesn't depend on Russia. I'm guessing Boeing and Lockheed would be the recipients of that largess.
- TheBiv 12y ago
  That is interesting, if that is the case. Bc to me, if so, then really the headline is misleading bc SpaceX didn't really 'win' anything bc the purchase would never have gone through anyways, injunction or not. Out of my own curiosity, was there a bit in this article that led you to that conclusion or had you been reading about this subject?
  - tcheard 12y ago
    The suit that SpaceX filed with the courts was not asking for the contract to be awarded to them, it was asking for the contract to be competed on, as originally required by Congress. They have repeatedly said that they just want an even competition. Now if there is a fair competition and they lose and it goes to ULA, that is fine, as long as there is fair competition. The other part of the filing was that they were asking for an injunction on the grounds that they believed that the ULA rocket shouldn't be allowed due to it using Russian parts that are under sanction due to executive orders. Under this part they did 'win' the injunction as this is one of the things they asked for. Therefore the headline is not misleading.
tcheard 12y ago
The Atlas V rocket built by the United Launch Alliance (ULA), which was scheduled to be the rocket to launch the majority of missions for this USAF contract is build using Rocket Engines bought from NPO Energomash part of the Russian Space Agency, specifically led by Dmitry Rogozin, the deputy prime minister of Russia. Obama issued an executive order sanctioning Dmitry Rogozin and any organization he is involved with. Given that ULA were buying rocket engines from an organization that Dmitry Rogozin is involved with, they would be breaching the executive order by doing so. Now this doesn't the contact has been stopped yet, as ULA have stated that they already have a 2 year stock of the engines and the injunction doesn't stop any sale pre-injunction. But if no other rulings come up as to why the contract should be stopped, they will still need to figure out a way to fulfill the launches that they do not have engine stock for.
- TheBiv 12y ago
  Thank you very much for the very thoughtful reply and gives a bunch of color (also alluded to by 'pmorici'). So, would you say that the injunction would have been granted had the sanctions not in place? Or was this purely a result of the sanctions?
  - tcheard 12y ago
    The full text of the order can be found here: http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z-pdf-archive/140430-ULAinjunction.pdf http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z-pdf-arch.... Note the courts dealing with SpaceX's filing is not complete, this is just an initial injunction based on one particular part of the filing. This injunction was particularly because it was in breach of the sanctions placed on Deputy Prime Minister Rogozin, and would not have been ordered otherwise.
- geoka9 12y ago
  Rogozin tweeted a couple of days ago that US astronauts should go to space on a trampoline. It's interesting that a deputy PM can be so unprofessional as to say things like that in public, but that's modern Russian politics for you: top level bureaucrats saying embarassing things purely for internal consumption.
tcheard 12y ago
Another point to be aware of is that members of the Senate from both the Republican party and the Democratic party have come out against this deal between ULA and USAF. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=9e2e8ba6-b6a9-4d3a-9a45-b2199b84e22b http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-relea... http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=c6782e97-ca58-47c4-991f-4587c8da1e9d http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases... Specifically Senator McCain has specifically stated that this 'Smacks of Cronyism'. (http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/04/30/mccain-rocket-deal-smacks-of-cronyism/ http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/04/30/mccain-rocket-deal-smacks-...).

by TheBiv 12y ago

pmorici 12y ago

The way I read it there are two separate issues. One is the fact that the launch contract wasn't competed. The other is that the US decided to put sanctions on Russia over Ukraine and those sanctions cover entities that have an interest in the Russian company these engine components are being bought from by the American companies. The court is basically saying that by buying that engine part from the Russian company that might violate the economic sanctions. Sounds like the injunction is only preliminary. Then you've got some congress people who realize this is a PR nightmare so they proposed a new spending program to develop a new rocket engine that doesn't depend on Russia. I'm guessing Boeing and Lockheed would be the recipients of that largess.

TheBiv 12y ago
That is interesting, if that is the case. Bc to me, if so, then really the headline is misleading bc SpaceX didn't really 'win' anything bc the purchase would never have gone through anyways, injunction or not. Out of my own curiosity, was there a bit in this article that led you to that conclusion or had you been reading about this subject?
- tcheard 12y ago
  The suit that SpaceX filed with the courts was not asking for the contract to be awarded to them, it was asking for the contract to be competed on, as originally required by Congress. They have repeatedly said that they just want an even competition. Now if there is a fair competition and they lose and it goes to ULA, that is fine, as long as there is fair competition. The other part of the filing was that they were asking for an injunction on the grounds that they believed that the ULA rocket shouldn't be allowed due to it using Russian parts that are under sanction due to executive orders. Under this part they did 'win' the injunction as this is one of the things they asked for. Therefore the headline is not misleading.

tcheard 12y ago

The Atlas V rocket built by the United Launch Alliance (ULA), which was scheduled to be the rocket to launch the majority of missions for this USAF contract is build using Rocket Engines bought from NPO Energomash part of the Russian Space Agency, specifically led by Dmitry Rogozin, the deputy prime minister of Russia. Obama issued an executive order sanctioning Dmitry Rogozin and any organization he is involved with. Given that ULA were buying rocket engines from an organization that Dmitry Rogozin is involved with, they would be breaching the executive order by doing so. Now this doesn't the contact has been stopped yet, as ULA have stated that they already have a 2 year stock of the engines and the injunction doesn't stop any sale pre-injunction. But if no other rulings come up as to why the contract should be stopped, they will still need to figure out a way to fulfill the launches that they do not have engine stock for.

TheBiv 12y ago
Thank you very much for the very thoughtful reply and gives a bunch of color (also alluded to by 'pmorici'). So, would you say that the injunction would have been granted had the sanctions not in place? Or was this purely a result of the sanctions?
- tcheard 12y ago
  The full text of the order can be found here: http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z-pdf-archive/140430-ULAinjunction.pdf http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z-pdf-arch.... Note the courts dealing with SpaceX's filing is not complete, this is just an initial injunction based on one particular part of the filing. This injunction was particularly because it was in breach of the sanctions placed on Deputy Prime Minister Rogozin, and would not have been ordered otherwise.
geoka9 12y ago
Rogozin tweeted a couple of days ago that US astronauts should go to space on a trampoline. It's interesting that a deputy PM can be so unprofessional as to say things like that in public, but that's modern Russian politics for you: top level bureaucrats saying embarassing things purely for internal consumption.

tcheard 12y ago

Another point to be aware of is that members of the Senate from both the Republican party and the Democratic party have come out against this deal between ULA and USAF. http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=9e2e8ba6-b6a9-4d3a-9a45-b2199b84e22b http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-relea... http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=c6782e97-ca58-47c4-991f-4587c8da1e9d http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases... Specifically Senator McCain has specifically stated that this 'Smacks of Cronyism'. (http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/04/30/mccain-rocket-deal-smacks-of-cronyism/ http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/04/30/mccain-rocket-deal-smacks-...).