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Worth pointing out: "The changing tech company policies do not affect data requests approved by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which are automati

by amirmc 12y ago

Worth pointing out: "The changing tech company policies do not affect data requests approved by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which are automatically kept secret by law. National security letters, which are administrative subpoenas issued by the FBI for national security investigations, also carry binding gag orders." But also: "The shifting industry practices force investigators to make difficult choices: withdraw data requests, allow notification to happen or go to magistrate judges to seek either gag orders or search warrants, which typically are issued under seal for a fixed period of time, delaying notification." I hope that the public don't misunderstand these two things.

PaulKeeble 12y ago
So nothing has really changed then. Its more marketing than substance in the hope that fluffy minimal changes to their policy will restore confidence while the same thing is continuing to happen.
- skue 12y ago
  No, this is different. In the past, tech companies might comply with requests from prosecutors to not inform customers that their data has been requested. This story claims that tech companies now require a gag order from a judge (FISC or otherwise). I have a lot of issues with FISA, but it sounds as though FISA requests are a far rarer than prosecutors requesting records. To restore balance we really do need to get back to requiring judges to weigh each request for data individually.
HenryMc 12y ago
Just PR, no real substance.
moskie 12y ago
Along those lines, it's good to keep these numbers in mind: https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2013-H2/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20... So in the most recent time period reported, there were ~12,000 requests for data, and between 0 and 1000 of them for NSL/FISA requests. Meaning these policies theoretically affect over 90% of the requests. Providing this perspective in contrast to the "this changes nothing" sentiment.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
ipsin 12y ago
Administrative subpoenas have really been the hammer agencies have used to crack into business records, time and again. I hope this change is as widespread as the article seems to claim. A lawful warrant should be the gold standard for record requests.

by amirmc 12y ago

PaulKeeble 12y ago

So nothing has really changed then. Its more marketing than substance in the hope that fluffy minimal changes to their policy will restore confidence while the same thing is continuing to happen.

skue 12y ago
No, this is different. In the past, tech companies might comply with requests from prosecutors to not inform customers that their data has been requested. This story claims that tech companies now require a gag order from a judge (FISC or otherwise). I have a lot of issues with FISA, but it sounds as though FISA requests are a far rarer than prosecutors requesting records. To restore balance we really do need to get back to requiring judges to weigh each request for data individually.

HenryMc 12y ago

Just PR, no real substance.

moskie 12y ago

Along those lines, it's good to keep these numbers in mind: https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2013-H2/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20... So in the most recent time period reported, there were ~12,000 requests for data, and between 0 and 1000 of them for NSL/FISA requests. Meaning these policies theoretically affect over 90% of the requests. Providing this perspective in contrast to the "this changes nothing" sentiment.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

ipsin 12y ago

Administrative subpoenas have really been the hammer agencies have used to crack into business records, time and again. I hope this change is as widespread as the article seems to claim. A lawful warrant should be the gold standard for record requests.