5 ms·

Let me play devil's advocate here: So what? Apart from an ideological view on "privacy is good mmkay", how exactly does it hinder your life if Google knows tha

by zxcdw 12y ago

Let me play devil's advocate here: So what? Apart from an ideological view on "privacy is good mmkay", how exactly does it hinder your life if Google knows that you are pregnant, or that if Facebook knows that you are planning up a party for a friend? Or that if company X knows you are anticipating movie Y? What concrete things do I gain from opting out? What do I lose? How does it actually affect my life? Edit: It's weird to receive downvotes for this as I'd assume a comment like this exactly contributes to the discussion about the topic at hand.

walden42 12y ago
> What concrete things do I gain from opting out? But why is privacy not enough? Why should I have to convince anyone else that privacy is important? If they don't care, then they don't have to be private themselves, but don't force it on other people. If you want an actual reason, then just look through the history books about how governments were using private information against their citizens (WW2 being the best example). "Oh, you look forward to watching V for Vendetta? New stats show that 90% of violent anarchists have watched that movie. Please come with us, citizen."
gress 12y ago
If it didn't affect your life, it wouldn't be valuable. Are you claiming all the effort spent on all this by corporations is simply misguided and doesn't affect people?
minikites 12y ago
What concrete things do you gain from freedom of speech or any of the other rights enshrined in law?
crazy1van 12y ago
Personally, if I have to watch 3 ads on Hulu before my video, I'd rather them be for things I might want to buy than things I will never buy.
- gress 12y ago
  I'm sorry you have to live in a world where you are forced to watch things you don't want to, but I guess that's the endpoint for our society so we should just learn to accept it. /s
- icebraining 12y ago
  Why are you telling us that? It was never your choice to make. And that's the problem.
  - crazy1van 12y ago
    My point is that in this case I actually do get some value from losing privacy. I could just watch regular TV instead of Hulu. Those ads are just targeted broadly by the viewership of a particular show or time-slot.
    - gress 12y ago
      This tradeoff was forced on you.
      - kefka 12y ago
        Piracy is ALWAYS an option. And piracy guarantees privacy in viewing. It doesn't go into RedBox's DB, nor does Netflix see what I watch, and nor does Hulu, nor even YouTube/Google. Nor will those Internet-bluray players tattle what I've seen. And there's no ads, ever. And I can watch when I want, how I want. Better yet, call it Rights-maintained Media.
        aaronem 12y ago
        > piracy guarantees privacy in viewing It does nothing of the sort; it only makes it less likely you'll get a targeted ad, and more likely you'll get a nasty letter from your ISP instead.
- xenophonf 12y ago
reuwsaat 12y ago
People that are of a sexual persuasion that their employer disapproves of. Victims of domestic abuse. People with stalkers. Bunch of other example. But really I think the author is speaking about the benefit of not, well, what the article's title says.
icehawk219 12y ago
> What concrete things do I gain from opting out? What do I lose? How does it actually affect my life? These are for profit businesses and both are ultimately controlled by investors. What's to stop Google or Facebook from giving that data to your insurance company so they can increase your premiums? Or what about the case a few years ago where a girl was pregnant and her father found out when Target started sending them targeted ads and spam? And keep in mind not only do they collect and use this data but they NEVER delete it. It's their data an it's their data for as long as they decide to keep it. What you gain is the ability to say or do something without being forced to think "in 25 years will this be used against me?"
danudey 12y ago
As an example: what if you're gay, or a pregnant teen, or into the swinging lifestyle, or a liberal, or any other thing that you might not want people to know? The article cites an example of how Target outed a pregnant teenager to her family by starting to send her ads for diapers and baby supplies. Her father was angry at Target (because he thought they were promoting teen pregnancy, and not just reacting to it) until he found the truth. What if she lived in a household where her family would kick her out for having gotten pregnant? Another example of data leakage: when Google Reader decided to go 'social' and let you share your feeds, they turned on public sharing by default; I read one blog post afterwards about a man who followed several liberal blogs even though his family was extremely conservative. As a result, his family saw that he was reading 'that trash' (paraphrasing) and they ended up having a huge argument (and, AFAIR, making their next holiday awkward and uncomfortable). It's also not hard to imagine targeted advertising popping up on your computer, making other people (family members? coworkers?) jump to conclusions (correct or not) about you or your lifestyle, or violent spouses noticing ads for abuse counselling based on your google searches. Even aside from the 'it's not their business' angle, these automated data harvesting and management systems are completely impersonal; they have no idea how much you share with others already or what you don't want other people to know. When even following a liberal blog can get you in an argument with your family, there's an argument for not trusting companies implicitly to handle your data in a responsible manner. So to answer your question, what you gain from opting out is control over your life, information about yourself, and how other people perceive you.
- j2kun 12y ago
  On the other hand, it's interesting that the root of the issue (according to your examples) are not that the companies are doing evil things, but that people are intolerant. Would privacy be such an issue if being gay/straight was no more interesting than your shoe size? Because it's clearly not about control of all information about yourself, but control of very specific pieces of information about yourself that are culturally deemed private, which can be identified and accounted for.
  - dTal 12y ago
    >people are intolerant Not just people. Insurance companies can be surprisingly intolerant of people with preexisting conditions. Companies in general can also be intolerant of their own employees searching for employment elsewhere. >Would privacy be such an issue if being gay/straight was no more interesting than your shoe size? Yes. Until we are a collective utopian hivemind, there will always be a need to keep secrets. You cannot account for all the possible reasons.
wpietri 12y ago
One possible cause of downvoting: devil's advocacy. The devil seems to be able to advocate well enough on his own, and there is enough opportunity for serious discussion that having to argue with people who don't even believe what they're saying is irritating and tiresome to many.

by zxcdw 12y ago

walden42 12y ago

> What concrete things do I gain from opting out? But why is privacy not enough? Why should I have to convince anyone else that privacy is important? If they don't care, then they don't have to be private themselves, but don't force it on other people. If you want an actual reason, then just look through the history books about how governments were using private information against their citizens (WW2 being the best example). "Oh, you look forward to watching V for Vendetta? New stats show that 90% of violent anarchists have watched that movie. Please come with us, citizen."

gress 12y ago

If it didn't affect your life, it wouldn't be valuable. Are you claiming all the effort spent on all this by corporations is simply misguided and doesn't affect people?

minikites 12y ago

What concrete things do you gain from freedom of speech or any of the other rights enshrined in law?

crazy1van 12y ago

Personally, if I have to watch 3 ads on Hulu before my video, I'd rather them be for things I might want to buy than things I will never buy.

gress 12y ago
I'm sorry you have to live in a world where you are forced to watch things you don't want to, but I guess that's the endpoint for our society so we should just learn to accept it. /s
icebraining 12y ago
Why are you telling us that? It was never your choice to make. And that's the problem.
- crazy1van 12y ago
  My point is that in this case I actually do get some value from losing privacy. I could just watch regular TV instead of Hulu. Those ads are just targeted broadly by the viewership of a particular show or time-slot.
  - gress 12y ago
    This tradeoff was forced on you.
    - kefka 12y ago
      Piracy is ALWAYS an option. And piracy guarantees privacy in viewing. It doesn't go into RedBox's DB, nor does Netflix see what I watch, and nor does Hulu, nor even YouTube/Google. Nor will those Internet-bluray players tattle what I've seen. And there's no ads, ever. And I can watch when I want, how I want. Better yet, call it Rights-maintained Media.
      - aaronem 12y ago
        > piracy guarantees privacy in viewing It does nothing of the sort; it only makes it less likely you'll get a targeted ad, and more likely you'll get a nasty letter from your ISP instead.
xenophonf 12y ago

reuwsaat 12y ago

People that are of a sexual persuasion that their employer disapproves of. Victims of domestic abuse. People with stalkers. Bunch of other example. But really I think the author is speaking about the benefit of not, well, what the article's title says.

icehawk219 12y ago

> What concrete things do I gain from opting out? What do I lose? How does it actually affect my life? These are for profit businesses and both are ultimately controlled by investors. What's to stop Google or Facebook from giving that data to your insurance company so they can increase your premiums? Or what about the case a few years ago where a girl was pregnant and her father found out when Target started sending them targeted ads and spam? And keep in mind not only do they collect and use this data but they NEVER delete it. It's their data an it's their data for as long as they decide to keep it. What you gain is the ability to say or do something without being forced to think "in 25 years will this be used against me?"

danudey 12y ago

As an example: what if you're gay, or a pregnant teen, or into the swinging lifestyle, or a liberal, or any other thing that you might not want people to know? The article cites an example of how Target outed a pregnant teenager to her family by starting to send her ads for diapers and baby supplies. Her father was angry at Target (because he thought they were promoting teen pregnancy, and not just reacting to it) until he found the truth. What if she lived in a household where her family would kick her out for having gotten pregnant? Another example of data leakage: when Google Reader decided to go 'social' and let you share your feeds, they turned on public sharing by default; I read one blog post afterwards about a man who followed several liberal blogs even though his family was extremely conservative. As a result, his family saw that he was reading 'that trash' (paraphrasing) and they ended up having a huge argument (and, AFAIR, making their next holiday awkward and uncomfortable). It's also not hard to imagine targeted advertising popping up on your computer, making other people (family members? coworkers?) jump to conclusions (correct or not) about you or your lifestyle, or violent spouses noticing ads for abuse counselling based on your google searches. Even aside from the 'it's not their business' angle, these automated data harvesting and management systems are completely impersonal; they have no idea how much you share with others already or what you don't want other people to know. When even following a liberal blog can get you in an argument with your family, there's an argument for not trusting companies implicitly to handle your data in a responsible manner. So to answer your question, what you gain from opting out is control over your life, information about yourself, and how other people perceive you.

j2kun 12y ago
On the other hand, it's interesting that the root of the issue (according to your examples) are not that the companies are doing evil things, but that people are intolerant. Would privacy be such an issue if being gay/straight was no more interesting than your shoe size? Because it's clearly not about control of all information about yourself, but control of very specific pieces of information about yourself that are culturally deemed private, which can be identified and accounted for.
- dTal 12y ago
  >people are intolerant Not just people. Insurance companies can be surprisingly intolerant of people with preexisting conditions. Companies in general can also be intolerant of their own employees searching for employment elsewhere. >Would privacy be such an issue if being gay/straight was no more interesting than your shoe size? Yes. Until we are a collective utopian hivemind, there will always be a need to keep secrets. You cannot account for all the possible reasons.

wpietri 12y ago

One possible cause of downvoting: devil's advocacy. The devil seems to be able to advocate well enough on his own, and there is enough opportunity for serious discussion that having to argue with people who don't even believe what they're saying is irritating and tiresome to many.