3 ms·

I coined the term "applications that you use at the coffee machine" a while ago for long-running stuff (simulations, compilations, NP-complete stuff like routin

I coined the term "applications that you use at the coffee machine" a while ago for long-running stuff (simulations, compilations, NP-complete stuff like routing or model checking). It's basically paying engineers to do nothing.

rbanffy 13y ago
I always assumed we were paid to think, not to type. If you measure workforce engagement by the amount of time their knees spend under the desk, you are measuring input, not output.
- klodolph 13y ago
  Well, yes, that's a bad way to measure performance. But when I compile something, it's because I want feedback from the compiler and static analyzer about the program I just wrote. I have a half-dozen parts of the program in short-term memory which I want to consider when seeing the output or the program behavior. If it takes five minutes to compile code, then my short-term memory will be filled with something else by then, like the weather, chores I'm putting off at home, or whatever. So if you measure how long it takes for engineers/developers to get feedback, you're really measuring how good their tools are, which is a half-decent proxy for engineer performance.
- nraynaud 13y ago
  It's more like reading reddit, when you're waiting for a heavy computation, you're not exploring results, tuning the algorithm or anything. You're just stuck on your tracks by a stupid machine. If anything, you'll be conservative in your use of the slow algorithm, because you don't want to lose another half day. You can't fiddle. Even if you try to be productive reading something smart in the mean time, you'll be interrupted by the end of the computation, and you'll be completely out of context when analyzing the results. (Note that it's the same when testing takes a long time, coincidentally, the same company had a long running product and 80 minute test cycle, so everybody was paid to take coffee)
bryanlarsen 13y ago
or to sword fight: http://xkcd.com/303/ http://xkcd.com/303/
- nraynaud 13y ago
  From what I have seen, not that many people have running stuff at the same time. But still, someone with a running stuff might propose to take a coffee break to someone who is not running stuff, and everybody loses (it's a bit like smoking breaks, where smokers tend to synchronize with the heaviest smoker). The worst part is that some applications are really hard to make faster, for example, going from "slow now" to "faster tomorrow" might necessitate quite a few changes that will be validated at "slow now" speed, for months. So the whole road to a faster tomorrow will be at pilgrimage pace.

rbanffy 13y ago

I always assumed we were paid to think, not to type. If you measure workforce engagement by the amount of time their knees spend under the desk, you are measuring input, not output.

klodolph 13y ago
Well, yes, that's a bad way to measure performance. But when I compile something, it's because I want feedback from the compiler and static analyzer about the program I just wrote. I have a half-dozen parts of the program in short-term memory which I want to consider when seeing the output or the program behavior. If it takes five minutes to compile code, then my short-term memory will be filled with something else by then, like the weather, chores I'm putting off at home, or whatever. So if you measure how long it takes for engineers/developers to get feedback, you're really measuring how good their tools are, which is a half-decent proxy for engineer performance.
nraynaud 13y ago
It's more like reading reddit, when you're waiting for a heavy computation, you're not exploring results, tuning the algorithm or anything. You're just stuck on your tracks by a stupid machine. If anything, you'll be conservative in your use of the slow algorithm, because you don't want to lose another half day. You can't fiddle. Even if you try to be productive reading something smart in the mean time, you'll be interrupted by the end of the computation, and you'll be completely out of context when analyzing the results. (Note that it's the same when testing takes a long time, coincidentally, the same company had a long running product and 80 minute test cycle, so everybody was paid to take coffee)

bryanlarsen 13y ago

or to sword fight: http://xkcd.com/303/ http://xkcd.com/303/

nraynaud 13y ago
From what I have seen, not that many people have running stuff at the same time. But still, someone with a running stuff might propose to take a coffee break to someone who is not running stuff, and everybody loses (it's a bit like smoking breaks, where smokers tend to synchronize with the heaviest smoker). The worst part is that some applications are really hard to make faster, for example, going from "slow now" to "faster tomorrow" might necessitate quite a few changes that will be validated at "slow now" speed, for months. So the whole road to a faster tomorrow will be at pilgrimage pace.