5 ms·

Isn't the issue that we don't want to share information with Facebook?

by loceng 13y ago

krapp 13y ago
Facebook is never going to see that as a problem worth solving.
- test1235 13y ago
  Facebook is never going to see that as a problem.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  That isn't facebook's problem to solve, its your problem. You are fully equipped to solve it yourself (i.e. don't use facebook).
junto 13y ago
Spot on. Isn't the issue that a leopard doesn't change his spots. Facebook has historically shown a blatant disregard for user's privacy. They store everything even when purporting to have deleted it and privacy is contrary to their underlying core business. Privacy and Facebook is an oxymoron
pavanky 13y ago
If you are getting products / services for free you have no right to demand that of them. Simply stop using facebook or any other social networking site for that matter.
- loceng 13y ago
  It's not free - there are ads and they are intrusive.
- shawn-furyan 13y ago
  I don't see the connection between direct payment for service and the right to demand things (not that the gp was 'demanding', but whatever...). I don't think that most paid apps codify a right for users to demand things of them, and actually terms of service for paid proprietary software have a tendency to be as restrictive as possible of end user rights. But Facebook is a service that monetizes user attention, and so I think that users are just as justified in complaining about, or trying to work around facets of Facebook that they see as misfeatures as they would be for software that they directly paid for. They don't have a lot of power to individually change anything, but they do have the right to complain in open forums. I don't think that the business model really has any bearing on this.
- ronaldx 13y ago
  Cost of a service is not relevant to your rights.
kevincrane 13y ago
I'm just curious, what do you want to get out of using Facebook if you don't tell them anything about you? If you don't tell it who your friends are or what things you like, then what else would you do with the site?
- loceng 13y ago
  Facebook has proven multiple times they will change settings when they please, and will do what they want with the information as they please. Platforms other than Facebook can facilitate what Facebook currently facilitates.
  - lotsofcows 13y ago
    Name one. I'll see how many of my friends / family /colleagues are on it. I can only think of LinkedIn which rather fails at the family / friends segments.
gregcohn 13y ago
There's an important difference between sharing information with facebook, and allowing facebook to share your information with 3rd party developers. Pure auth has value to developers who want to verify a user without requiring a handshake of verifying an email address, having to manage against spam accounts, and so on. Yes it's possible to have multiple facebook accounts, but there's significantly more friction in facebook's system than in any home-rolled system you're going to come up with. While at the same time, significantly less friction from a "steps the user has to take to log into your app" point of view.
- loceng 13y ago
  Of course that's an important difference, though most still don't trust Facebook with that information either.
  - gregcohn 13y ago
    Nor should they! But I don't think that's an argument against this auth product, which only works if a user has an active facebook account (ie has trusted facebook with data) to begin with. It's another developer option, one flavor among many, that developers can use to make it easier for users to log in. Given the reality that most people actually do use facebook, I think it's kind of interesting.
    - loceng 13y ago
      Didn't everyone trust Facebook to begin with. That's how the world works. You have to trust people to begin trusting them (or an organization) - else you're going to be paranoid of the world and become sick. Facebook has violated that trust multiple times.
      - gregcohn 13y ago
        We are in agreement re facebook violating user trust in a variety of ways. The Anonymous Authentication product is more about what goes to 3rd party developers though.
jamesaguilar 13y ago
Facebook is not trying to satisfy you. It is trying to satisfy its users.
kelnos 13y ago
For you, perhaps, but not for most people. There have been several occasions where I've wanted to try an app that use only FB login, but it asked for too much information, so I decided not to. Anon login would give me the ability to try these things out, and possibly give me the confidence to allow a real login. (For the record, if an app supports traditional username/email+password login, I'll prefer that, but some support only FB, and understandably so: user account management is hard.) I'm getting a little tired with how out of touch people on HN seem, especially with regard to things like Facebook. Guess what: the majority of FB's user base does not care about privacy as much as you do. Even people who do care to an extent, and don't implicitly trust FB, are at least comfortable with some level of interaction and sharing on the platform. Anon login is targeted at people who are comfortable with what they share with FB, but are wary of giving their personal info to some random app they want to try.
- loceng 13y ago
  Not sure how few people we're talking about. Within a couple of minutes of posting this comment it had 10+ upvotes. I'd disagree too, I know many non-HN people who would be happy to switch to something else but Facebook is the incumbent. I don't disagree with the idea of a "Anon Login" whatsoever, that is a good idea.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    Comment hating on Facebook gets upvote? Stop the presses. Maybe I'm misreading you, but it sounds like you believe that upvotes on HN allow you to infer something meaningful about what real, normal people believe. Don't make that mistake. You'll be in for a rude awakening if you do.
    - loceng 13y ago
      It's one of many signals.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
hackinthebochs 13y ago
The facebook hate on this site has reached levels of absurdity.

Isn't the issue that we don't want to share information with Facebook?

by loceng 13y ago

Isn't the issue that we don't want to share information with Facebook?

krapp 13y ago

Facebook is never going to see that as a problem worth solving.

test1235 13y ago
Facebook is never going to see that as a problem.
hackinthebochs 13y ago
That isn't facebook's problem to solve, its your problem. You are fully equipped to solve it yourself (i.e. don't use facebook).

junto 13y ago

Spot on. Isn't the issue that a leopard doesn't change his spots. Facebook has historically shown a blatant disregard for user's privacy. They store everything even when purporting to have deleted it and privacy is contrary to their underlying core business. Privacy and Facebook is an oxymoron

pavanky 13y ago

If you are getting products / services for free you have no right to demand that of them. Simply stop using facebook or any other social networking site for that matter.

loceng 13y ago
It's not free - there are ads and they are intrusive.
shawn-furyan 13y ago
I don't see the connection between direct payment for service and the right to demand things (not that the gp was 'demanding', but whatever...). I don't think that most paid apps codify a right for users to demand things of them, and actually terms of service for paid proprietary software have a tendency to be as restrictive as possible of end user rights. But Facebook is a service that monetizes user attention, and so I think that users are just as justified in complaining about, or trying to work around facets of Facebook that they see as misfeatures as they would be for software that they directly paid for. They don't have a lot of power to individually change anything, but they do have the right to complain in open forums. I don't think that the business model really has any bearing on this.
ronaldx 13y ago
Cost of a service is not relevant to your rights.

kevincrane 13y ago

I'm just curious, what do you want to get out of using Facebook if you don't tell them anything about you? If you don't tell it who your friends are or what things you like, then what else would you do with the site?

loceng 13y ago
Facebook has proven multiple times they will change settings when they please, and will do what they want with the information as they please. Platforms other than Facebook can facilitate what Facebook currently facilitates.
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  Name one. I'll see how many of my friends / family /colleagues are on it. I can only think of LinkedIn which rather fails at the family / friends segments.

gregcohn 13y ago

There's an important difference between sharing information with facebook, and allowing facebook to share your information with 3rd party developers. Pure auth has value to developers who want to verify a user without requiring a handshake of verifying an email address, having to manage against spam accounts, and so on. Yes it's possible to have multiple facebook accounts, but there's significantly more friction in facebook's system than in any home-rolled system you're going to come up with. While at the same time, significantly less friction from a "steps the user has to take to log into your app" point of view.

loceng 13y ago
Of course that's an important difference, though most still don't trust Facebook with that information either.
- gregcohn 13y ago
  Nor should they! But I don't think that's an argument against this auth product, which only works if a user has an active facebook account (ie has trusted facebook with data) to begin with. It's another developer option, one flavor among many, that developers can use to make it easier for users to log in. Given the reality that most people actually do use facebook, I think it's kind of interesting.
  - loceng 13y ago
    Didn't everyone trust Facebook to begin with. That's how the world works. You have to trust people to begin trusting them (or an organization) - else you're going to be paranoid of the world and become sick. Facebook has violated that trust multiple times.
    - gregcohn 13y ago
      We are in agreement re facebook violating user trust in a variety of ways. The Anonymous Authentication product is more about what goes to 3rd party developers though.

jamesaguilar 13y ago

Facebook is not trying to satisfy you. It is trying to satisfy its users.

kelnos 13y ago

For you, perhaps, but not for most people. There have been several occasions where I've wanted to try an app that use only FB login, but it asked for too much information, so I decided not to. Anon login would give me the ability to try these things out, and possibly give me the confidence to allow a real login. (For the record, if an app supports traditional username/email+password login, I'll prefer that, but some support only FB, and understandably so: user account management is hard.) I'm getting a little tired with how out of touch people on HN seem, especially with regard to things like Facebook. Guess what: the majority of FB's user base does not care about privacy as much as you do. Even people who do care to an extent, and don't implicitly trust FB, are at least comfortable with some level of interaction and sharing on the platform. Anon login is targeted at people who are comfortable with what they share with FB, but are wary of giving their personal info to some random app they want to try.

loceng 13y ago
Not sure how few people we're talking about. Within a couple of minutes of posting this comment it had 10+ upvotes. I'd disagree too, I know many non-HN people who would be happy to switch to something else but Facebook is the incumbent. I don't disagree with the idea of a "Anon Login" whatsoever, that is a good idea.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Comment hating on Facebook gets upvote? Stop the presses. Maybe I'm misreading you, but it sounds like you believe that upvotes on HN allow you to infer something meaningful about what real, normal people believe. Don't make that mistake. You'll be in for a rude awakening if you do.
  - loceng 13y ago
    It's one of many signals.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

hackinthebochs 13y ago

The facebook hate on this site has reached levels of absurdity.