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Todd from @BuySellAds here. An ideal setup is one in which you utilize about a handful of different companies in the "Tier 2" position. Probably no more than a

Todd from @BuySellAds here. An ideal setup is one in which you utilize about a handful of different companies in the "Tier 2" position. Probably no more than a handful though, because after that it gets hard to manage and rather convoluted. Tier 1 is your directly sold ads (stuff you sell on your own directly to an advertiser or through a company like BuySellAds). Tier 2 is where the AdSense's of the world will live. It really depends on your "niche", but in general the best options tend to be: AdSense, Rubicon Project (if you're big enough), PubMatic (again, if you're big enough), or a "niche/vertical" ad company that focuses on sites like yours. By-and-large, AdSense "owns" this space outright, and even if you're using a program like ours (http://buysellads.com/publishers/unreserved http://buysellads.com/publishers/unreserved) for your "non-reserved" inventory (stuff that isn't sold direct) there's going to be SOME mix of AdSense (or AdX) in there. Ad money certainly isn't easy, and more and more is going to go toward those publishers creating great content and curating high-value audiences (i.e. not user generated content...). The days of "set it and forget it" are over for most publishers who aren't interested in earning pennies on the dollar. If you can't sell ads directly through a service like BuySellAds or on your own, well, I wish you luck :) It's not all doom and gloom though - we see publishers make quite a bit of money all the time. It ultimately comes down to the quality of their site, it's content, and the users.

adsensertoo 12y ago
Thanks Todd. Out of curiosity, how big do you have to be for Rubicon Project and PubMatic, in terms of pageviews/mo?
- toddynho 12y ago
  Well, Rubicon for example has 700 sell-side partners [1]... so, very large. PubMatic, I believe, is similar. Your other options for mixing stuff in with AdSense would be to find some fairly targeted affiliate programs; however, it's tedious and requires quite a bit of upkeep. [1] http://www.adexchanger.com/platforms/as-ipo-dust-settles-rubicon-project-prepares-to-invest/ http://www.adexchanger.com/platforms/as-ipo-dust-settles-rub...
- putlake 12y ago
  10 million++ page views per month for them to seriously consider partnering with you.
sandycheeks 12y ago
We've noticed a decrease in tier 1 advertisers over the last 18 months. We get a million+ uniques per month and are very picky about the ads we run. The decrease in tier 1 has been small businesses who have become concerned that their ads may be misconstrued as 'link buying' and will cause them to be penalized in Google's search so all that is left for us are the large brands. Many of the small businesses had been advertising with us for over five years. We've been considering BuySellAds because of the high quality of the ads we see them run on other sites.
- junto 12y ago
  That's scary. Do Google really penalise companies who buy advertising from other sites other than via Google Adsense?
  - toddynho 12y ago
    For the sanctity of the business world we live in I sure as heck hope it's not true.
  - camillomiller 12y ago
    You can't make a connection direct enough, but well, yeah, that happened and happens all the time. Penguin update is all about that. They may be sincerely thinking that penguin stops direct link buying so that you have better results or more natural results. The outcome is that shitty results are still all over the place, good content is not king and if you want to advertise without any risk you go through Adsense. That is particularly true in smaller markets where Adsense is the only possible player unless you're big enough to have different deals with classic media agencies (those who manage all kind of ads -- print, tv and web.
- toddynho 12y ago
  What's scary about that is that your advertisers' perception seems to be hurting your business, but for something that (by all reasonable imagination on my side...) shouldn't actually be true. I'd love to see if we can help debunk your advertisers' fears.
stevesearer 12y ago
Tier 1 is definitely the way to go - on the site I run, which I see as being great content with a high-value audience, we can direct sell an ad for 6-8x what we'd pocket from Google for the same real estate.
- toddynho 12y ago
  That's a great spot to be in Steve, I'd love to chat :)
doh 12y ago
Hm, this is what google shows when you type the name of your company (at least in safari) http://imgur.com/cfdFdvd http://imgur.com/cfdFdvd There is no link to click on
- supergirl 12y ago
  same in chrome
- JamiesonWarner 12y ago
  Try disabling adblock and then try again ;)
  - doh 12y ago
    Uff, that's really unfortunate when the adblock block the name of your company.
    - toddynho 12y ago
      Tell me about... cough someone at AdBlock please write a smarter regex for the default filter... cough
- owenversteeg 12y ago
  It looks like they updated their site's description to reflect this, at least for DuckDuckGo: http://i.imgur.com/q7JbbBv.png http://i.imgur.com/q7JbbBv.png
junto 12y ago
Hi Todd. I just asked a competitor for his company's policy on App Store browser hijacking [1]. I.e. Ads that automatically open iTunes or Google Play. What is your company's policy regarding this extremely shady underhanded practice? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7675109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7675109
- TruthSHIFT 12y ago
  Why is this shady? If I intentionally click on a link to an app, why would I not want that link to open the App Store?
  - toddynho 12y ago
    There have been ads getting through some of the exchanges that automagically open the AppStore or iTunes without you clicking or tapping anything...
  - junto 12y ago
    I mean ads that use JavaScript to automatically open app stores without the user actually clicking on an ad, just by viewing a page. I'm seeing this practice increasing and spreading. It must be effective. I've seen it on some big web properties. The other day I was browsing the Guardian and boom, iTunes opened. If spent some time afterwards on my PC and Fiddler duplicating the views using a faked user agent to watch the redirects and cookies. It is slyly done. Normally it only happens once per session. They drop a cookie so that they don't persistently annoy the user, just once in a while.
- toddynho 12y ago
  Our policy is basically to just never be shady... shady stuff is best left for other folks who enjoy making a quick buck. We just don't deal with shady stuff like this.
putlake 12y ago
Todd, I signed up with BSA today after seeing your comment here. You do not use HTTPS for publishers to log in. This does not inspire confidence in the company.
- toddynho 12y ago
  You're right - we have some non-ssl'd pages that you're allowed to login from - something we've gotta fix.

adsensertoo 12y ago

Thanks Todd. Out of curiosity, how big do you have to be for Rubicon Project and PubMatic, in terms of pageviews/mo?

toddynho 12y ago
Well, Rubicon for example has 700 sell-side partners [1]... so, very large. PubMatic, I believe, is similar. Your other options for mixing stuff in with AdSense would be to find some fairly targeted affiliate programs; however, it's tedious and requires quite a bit of upkeep. [1] http://www.adexchanger.com/platforms/as-ipo-dust-settles-rubicon-project-prepares-to-invest/ http://www.adexchanger.com/platforms/as-ipo-dust-settles-rub...
putlake 12y ago
10 million++ page views per month for them to seriously consider partnering with you.

sandycheeks 12y ago

We've noticed a decrease in tier 1 advertisers over the last 18 months. We get a million+ uniques per month and are very picky about the ads we run. The decrease in tier 1 has been small businesses who have become concerned that their ads may be misconstrued as 'link buying' and will cause them to be penalized in Google's search so all that is left for us are the large brands. Many of the small businesses had been advertising with us for over five years. We've been considering BuySellAds because of the high quality of the ads we see them run on other sites.

junto 12y ago
That's scary. Do Google really penalise companies who buy advertising from other sites other than via Google Adsense?
- toddynho 12y ago
  For the sanctity of the business world we live in I sure as heck hope it's not true.
- camillomiller 12y ago
  You can't make a connection direct enough, but well, yeah, that happened and happens all the time. Penguin update is all about that. They may be sincerely thinking that penguin stops direct link buying so that you have better results or more natural results. The outcome is that shitty results are still all over the place, good content is not king and if you want to advertise without any risk you go through Adsense. That is particularly true in smaller markets where Adsense is the only possible player unless you're big enough to have different deals with classic media agencies (those who manage all kind of ads -- print, tv and web.
toddynho 12y ago
What's scary about that is that your advertisers' perception seems to be hurting your business, but for something that (by all reasonable imagination on my side...) shouldn't actually be true. I'd love to see if we can help debunk your advertisers' fears.

stevesearer 12y ago

Tier 1 is definitely the way to go - on the site I run, which I see as being great content with a high-value audience, we can direct sell an ad for 6-8x what we'd pocket from Google for the same real estate.

toddynho 12y ago
That's a great spot to be in Steve, I'd love to chat :)

doh 12y ago

Hm, this is what google shows when you type the name of your company (at least in safari) http://imgur.com/cfdFdvd http://imgur.com/cfdFdvd There is no link to click on

supergirl 12y ago
same in chrome
JamiesonWarner 12y ago
Try disabling adblock and then try again ;)
- doh 12y ago
  Uff, that's really unfortunate when the adblock block the name of your company.
  - toddynho 12y ago
    Tell me about... cough someone at AdBlock please write a smarter regex for the default filter... cough
owenversteeg 12y ago
It looks like they updated their site's description to reflect this, at least for DuckDuckGo: http://i.imgur.com/q7JbbBv.png http://i.imgur.com/q7JbbBv.png

junto 12y ago

Hi Todd. I just asked a competitor for his company's policy on App Store browser hijacking [1]. I.e. Ads that automatically open iTunes or Google Play. What is your company's policy regarding this extremely shady underhanded practice? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7675109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7675109

TruthSHIFT 12y ago
Why is this shady? If I intentionally click on a link to an app, why would I not want that link to open the App Store?
- toddynho 12y ago
  There have been ads getting through some of the exchanges that automagically open the AppStore or iTunes without you clicking or tapping anything...
- junto 12y ago
  I mean ads that use JavaScript to automatically open app stores without the user actually clicking on an ad, just by viewing a page. I'm seeing this practice increasing and spreading. It must be effective. I've seen it on some big web properties. The other day I was browsing the Guardian and boom, iTunes opened. If spent some time afterwards on my PC and Fiddler duplicating the views using a faked user agent to watch the redirects and cookies. It is slyly done. Normally it only happens once per session. They drop a cookie so that they don't persistently annoy the user, just once in a while.
toddynho 12y ago
Our policy is basically to just never be shady... shady stuff is best left for other folks who enjoy making a quick buck. We just don't deal with shady stuff like this.

putlake 12y ago

Todd, I signed up with BSA today after seeing your comment here. You do not use HTTPS for publishers to log in. This does not inspire confidence in the company.

toddynho 12y ago
You're right - we have some non-ssl'd pages that you're allowed to login from - something we've gotta fix.