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It it possible for you to respond to a good faith question by not being a flippant prima donna? I actually agree more with you than him, but my goodness you ha

by selmnoo 12y ago

It it possible for you to respond to a good faith question by not being a flippant prima donna? I actually agree more with you than him, but my goodness you have the worst attitude ever when you talk to people who have misguided notions on things. Try the being nice approach once in a while if you want to convince others of your viewpoints, rather than going berserk and putting a caustic contrarian spin on everything.

tptacek 12y ago
Probably not on this issue, no. But if you see me being a flippant prima donna on some other issue, please do let me know. Actually, axe the "flippant" part of that; it's just the prima donnaism that I actually care about. I'm sure you're right that there's a strain of it in there.
- selmnoo 12y ago
  I have called you out on this issue before. Seriously, understand that the reason you'll be more effective if you're nice on this issue is that a significant subset of folks who behave in a way that keeps women away is because of the things that happened to them when they were adolescents. A significant subset of them thought they weren't handsome enough, tall enough, buff enough to ever be loved by a woman. And then they lived their lives away from them, in their own cliques and IRC channels, fulfilling their physical needs by porn and beginning to see the greatest value of women not to be their personhood or humanity, but something that provides material to jerk one off. I'm not pulling all of this out of my ass, this is from my personal experiences of 15 years of spending nights with programmers in person and in IRC. To reorient their minds and thoughts you have to show them love, not belittle them -- if you belittle them that's only going to frame the situation into a confrontational battle where the other side will naturally start feeling the need to defend itself just because it's their side.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Respectfully: I'm not interested in coaching on gender equality issues. At all. Not even a little bit. However, if you see me behaving like a "flippant prima donna" on some other issue, I'm happy for the feedback. I'm not unhappy for the feedback here; I'm just not the least bit interested in it.

by selmnoo 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

Probably not on this issue, no. But if you see me being a flippant prima donna on some other issue, please do let me know. Actually, axe the "flippant" part of that; it's just the prima donnaism that I actually care about. I'm sure you're right that there's a strain of it in there.

selmnoo 12y ago
I have called you out on this issue before. Seriously, understand that the reason you'll be more effective if you're nice on this issue is that a significant subset of folks who behave in a way that keeps women away is because of the things that happened to them when they were adolescents. A significant subset of them thought they weren't handsome enough, tall enough, buff enough to ever be loved by a woman. And then they lived their lives away from them, in their own cliques and IRC channels, fulfilling their physical needs by porn and beginning to see the greatest value of women not to be their personhood or humanity, but something that provides material to jerk one off. I'm not pulling all of this out of my ass, this is from my personal experiences of 15 years of spending nights with programmers in person and in IRC. To reorient their minds and thoughts you have to show them love, not belittle them -- if you belittle them that's only going to frame the situation into a confrontational battle where the other side will naturally start feeling the need to defend itself just because it's their side.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Respectfully: I'm not interested in coaching on gender equality issues. At all. Not even a little bit. However, if you see me behaving like a "flippant prima donna" on some other issue, I'm happy for the feedback. I'm not unhappy for the feedback here; I'm just not the least bit interested in it.