5 ms·

Strange that the "swiping & pinch to zoom" gestures (starting at 41) are exactly opposite of how they work in an iPad. I can understand swiping being backward

by finnh 13y ago

Strange that the "swiping & pinch to zoom" gestures (starting at 41) are exactly opposite of how they work in an iPad. I can understand swiping being backward - people can disagree about "move the camera" vs. "move the paper" - but pinch-to-zoom-in is wrong in all contexts. ah, microsoft. you've got this cool research, but somehow you manage to make the usability all wrong. how did these people not notice that they implemented pinch-to-zoom backward from how it works on their phones?

icegreentea 13y ago
I'm sure they noticed, and totally didn't care. At this level of research/prototyping, it would be like worrying that your prototype electric car with 50% more range has the steering wheel on the wrong side.
userbinator 13y ago
> people can disagree about "move the camera" vs. "move the paper" - but pinch-to-zoom-in is wrong in all contexts. It's not wrong, it's just another manner of perspective: "shrink the aperture" vs. "shrink the paper". > how did these people not notice that they implemented pinch-to-zoom backward from how it works on their phones? On a touchscreen, it feels like you're actually working with the content directly, but when it's a keyboard, touchpad, or scrollwheel on a mouse, you're really working with the "camera".
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  That's the best description I've ever heard. Apple really got this wrong with their new default "natural" scrolling on OS X.
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    Eh. I prefer natural scrolling. Took me two seconds to get used to and I don't like the 'normal' way anymore. On my work laptop, though, I keep it off because it reverses a mouse scroll wheel too, which I find abhorrent.
    - zevyoura 13y ago
      Check out Scroll Reverser[0], it allows you to reverse just one input. [0] https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/ https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/
- finnh 13y ago
  Sure, there is a model that can explain it. Same w/ camera-vs-paper in swipe. By "wrong" I mean "does not work that way in any other device, and so violates the user's by-now-fairly-well-burned-in expectation". So, in terms of the principle of least surprise, wrong. Wilfully so, given that (to my knowledge at least) pinch-to-zoom has only existed for a few years and has only worked in this one way.
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    I am guessing its configurable (like inverted camera in games) So, that should end this debate right now. Btw, two finger scrolling on trackpads is usually opposite of what works on the phone too, and people have no trouble with that either But ignore that, as i said, it must be configurable. No sense on debating on each others preferences
jamesbritt 13y ago
but pinch-to-zoom-in is wrong in all contexts. Smaller distance between finger tips == smaller abstract distance from what's show on the screen. To "move farther away" you move your fingers farther apart. It doesn't seem all that odd. Just requires shifting the mental model (as with swiping). Meanwhile, later in the same video (3:21), they show the same gesture following the more common behavior (widening fingertip distance zoom into a document). Seems like something that should be configurable per program (though I think cross-app consistency would make things easier for me).
- bentcorner 13y ago
  This seems like one of those things people will eternally argue about, much like 3rd person video game camera controls and to a lesser extent, plane simulator controls in games viewed from a chase camera.

by finnh 13y ago

icegreentea 13y ago

I'm sure they noticed, and totally didn't care. At this level of research/prototyping, it would be like worrying that your prototype electric car with 50% more range has the steering wheel on the wrong side.

userbinator 13y ago

> people can disagree about "move the camera" vs. "move the paper" - but pinch-to-zoom-in is wrong in all contexts. It's not wrong, it's just another manner of perspective: "shrink the aperture" vs. "shrink the paper". > how did these people not notice that they implemented pinch-to-zoom backward from how it works on their phones? On a touchscreen, it feels like you're actually working with the content directly, but when it's a keyboard, touchpad, or scrollwheel on a mouse, you're really working with the "camera".

nsxwolf 13y ago
That's the best description I've ever heard. Apple really got this wrong with their new default "natural" scrolling on OS X.
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  Eh. I prefer natural scrolling. Took me two seconds to get used to and I don't like the 'normal' way anymore. On my work laptop, though, I keep it off because it reverses a mouse scroll wheel too, which I find abhorrent.
  - zevyoura 13y ago
    Check out Scroll Reverser[0], it allows you to reverse just one input. [0] https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/ https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/
finnh 13y ago
Sure, there is a model that can explain it. Same w/ camera-vs-paper in swipe. By "wrong" I mean "does not work that way in any other device, and so violates the user's by-now-fairly-well-burned-in expectation". So, in terms of the principle of least surprise, wrong. Wilfully so, given that (to my knowledge at least) pinch-to-zoom has only existed for a few years and has only worked in this one way.
- xerophtye 13y ago
  I am guessing its configurable (like inverted camera in games) So, that should end this debate right now. Btw, two finger scrolling on trackpads is usually opposite of what works on the phone too, and people have no trouble with that either But ignore that, as i said, it must be configurable. No sense on debating on each others preferences

jamesbritt 13y ago

but pinch-to-zoom-in is wrong in all contexts. Smaller distance between finger tips == smaller abstract distance from what's show on the screen. To "move farther away" you move your fingers farther apart. It doesn't seem all that odd. Just requires shifting the mental model (as with swiping). Meanwhile, later in the same video (3:21), they show the same gesture following the more common behavior (widening fingertip distance zoom into a document). Seems like something that should be configurable per program (though I think cross-app consistency would make things easier for me).

bentcorner 13y ago
This seems like one of those things people will eternally argue about, much like 3rd person video game camera controls and to a lesser extent, plane simulator controls in games viewed from a chase camera.