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I think it's cool to have great PHP support on Heroku. PHP doesn't always get much love from a lot of the developer community, but it has its place and if nothi

I think it's cool to have great PHP support on Heroku. PHP doesn't always get much love from a lot of the developer community, but it has its place and if nothing else, Heroku support means you can migrate your app there from a shared Dreamhost account if it ever blows up. It's good to have options.

at-fates-hands 12y ago
>> PHP doesn't always get much love from a lot of the developer community. This is odd since most people don't think of equating WordPress with PHP, but WP gets a TON of love from the development community.
- leeoniya 12y ago
  the irony is that WP source and plugin architecture is written in textbook shit PHP from the 90s. (last i worked with it a couple years ago). i would not wish WP development onto my worst enemies. i really hope it gets displaced by something managable written in proper PSR-0 and >=PHP 5.5 in many ways, WP exemplifies PHP core devs' philosophy of "dont ever break existing ecosystem compat". PHP has some major WTF that lingers on because of this. i'm very surprised that it has been progressing at all considering how stubborn they are on even fixing completely obvious shit like "unexpected comma" errors written in Hebrew. wordpress takes this attitude to a whole new level :( there is great, maintainable software written in clean* PHP; the only thing i've learned from WP is how not to write software.
  - ianhawes 12y ago
    Ironically, the old WordPress motto was "code is poetry".
    - juddlyon 12y ago
      Poetry is often about pain and torment. :)
  - jrochkind1 12y ago
    What's your favorite example of great, maintainable open source software written in clean PHP? I'd like to look at a good example to give it another chance.
    - walden42 12y ago
      Laravel.
      - jafaku 12y ago
        That's just a wrapper around Symfony2.
        walden42 12y ago
        It's definitely not a wrapper, but it does use a lot of its components.
    - leeoniya 12y ago
      - Doctrine - ORM - Symfony - framework - Silex - micro framework based on symfony components - Laravel - framework - Slim - framework - Swiftmailer - email/transport framework - Guzzle - http web service client - React - async i/o - reactphp/promise - promises - AuraPHP - framework components - Ratchet - web sockets - Assetic - Asset Management for PHP - Piwik - Open Source Analytics - Monolog - Logging - Goutte - a simple PHP Web Scraper many projects use modular components from these and others. also check out some repos with a lot of stars https://github.com/search?l=PHP&q=stars%3A%3E1&s=stars&type=Repositories https://github.com/search?l=PHP&q=stars%3A%3E1&s=stars&type=... careful though, Wordpress is there also.
      - jafaku 12y ago
        You forgot to mention the one that rules them all: https://github.com/composer/composer https://github.com/composer/composer
        12y ago
  - zapt02 12y ago
    can we tone down the elitist attitude? i personally enjoy how simple WP is to use and extend - that's one of its core strengths. As with any complex piece of software, there are a few wtf's to be had.
    - gnaritas 12y ago
      > can we tone down the elitist attitude? There's nothing elitist about speaking the plain truth, which is exactly what he did.
      - pessimizer 12y ago
        Or she did.
        leeoniya 12y ago
        let's not start jumping on each other's asses every time someone doesnt use s/he; there are about 1e6 ways to determine that i'm a dude, not least of which is my russian username. i, for one, do try to check this when referring to others before resorting to being ambiguous. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=leeoniya https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=leeoniya https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=leeoniya https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=leeoniya https://github.com/leeoniya https://github.com/leeoniya https://twitter.com/leeoniya https://twitter.com/leeoniya
    - leeoniya 12y ago
      i am speaking from experience. and without getting into it myself, please refer to some others' opinions. http://milesj.me/blog/read/wordpress-is-bad-mmmk http://milesj.me/blog/read/wordpress-is-bad-mmmk http://www.usingwp.com/general-WordPress/why-WordPress-sucks/ http://www.usingwp.com/general-WordPress/why-WordPress-sucks... http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-WordPress-integration-or-why-WordPress-sucks/ http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-WordPress-int... http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-bad-things-about-WordPress/ http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-bad-things-about-WordPress... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1481631/why-is-wordpress-considered-to-be-poorly-programmed http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1481631/why-is-wordpress-... http://someguyjeremy.com/blog/why-i-hate-wordpress http://someguyjeremy.com/blog/why-i-hate-wordpress http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/wordpress-decoupled/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/wordpress-decoupled/
- LoganCale 12y ago
  No developer I know likes WordPress. In fact, there's almost universal hate and dread about having to work with it. From a user perspective it's decent, but its codebase (and community) is terrible.
  - icelancer 12y ago
    Meh. I don't mind it, and it drives some of my eCommerce sites through WooCommerce. Nothing huge of course, but annual sales in the six figures. It's not that bad, really.

at-fates-hands 12y ago

>> PHP doesn't always get much love from a lot of the developer community. This is odd since most people don't think of equating WordPress with PHP, but WP gets a TON of love from the development community.

leeoniya 12y ago
the irony is that WP source and plugin architecture is written in textbook shit PHP from the 90s. (last i worked with it a couple years ago). i would not wish WP development onto my worst enemies. i really hope it gets displaced by something managable written in proper PSR-0 and >=PHP 5.5 in many ways, WP exemplifies PHP core devs' philosophy of "dont ever break existing ecosystem compat". PHP has some major WTF that lingers on because of this. i'm very surprised that it has been progressing at all considering how stubborn they are on even fixing completely obvious shit like "unexpected comma" errors written in Hebrew. wordpress takes this attitude to a whole new level :( there is great, maintainable software written in clean* PHP; the only thing i've learned from WP is how not to write software.
- ianhawes 12y ago
  Ironically, the old WordPress motto was "code is poetry".
  - juddlyon 12y ago
    Poetry is often about pain and torment. :)
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  What's your favorite example of great, maintainable open source software written in clean PHP? I'd like to look at a good example to give it another chance.
  - walden42 12y ago
    Laravel.
    - jafaku 12y ago
      That's just a wrapper around Symfony2.
      - walden42 12y ago
        It's definitely not a wrapper, but it does use a lot of its components.
  - leeoniya 12y ago
    - Doctrine - ORM - Symfony - framework - Silex - micro framework based on symfony components - Laravel - framework - Slim - framework - Swiftmailer - email/transport framework - Guzzle - http web service client - React - async i/o - reactphp/promise - promises - AuraPHP - framework components - Ratchet - web sockets - Assetic - Asset Management for PHP - Piwik - Open Source Analytics - Monolog - Logging - Goutte - a simple PHP Web Scraper many projects use modular components from these and others. also check out some repos with a lot of stars https://github.com/search?l=PHP&q=stars%3A%3E1&s=stars&type=Repositories https://github.com/search?l=PHP&q=stars%3A%3E1&s=stars&type=... careful though, Wordpress is there also.
    - jafaku 12y ago
      You forgot to mention the one that rules them all: https://github.com/composer/composer https://github.com/composer/composer
      - 12y ago
- zapt02 12y ago
  can we tone down the elitist attitude? i personally enjoy how simple WP is to use and extend - that's one of its core strengths. As with any complex piece of software, there are a few wtf's to be had.
  - gnaritas 12y ago
    > can we tone down the elitist attitude? There's nothing elitist about speaking the plain truth, which is exactly what he did.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      Or she did.
      - leeoniya 12y ago
        let's not start jumping on each other's asses every time someone doesnt use s/he; there are about 1e6 ways to determine that i'm a dude, not least of which is my russian username. i, for one, do try to check this when referring to others before resorting to being ambiguous. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=leeoniya https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=leeoniya https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=leeoniya https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=leeoniya https://github.com/leeoniya https://github.com/leeoniya https://twitter.com/leeoniya https://twitter.com/leeoniya
  - leeoniya 12y ago
    i am speaking from experience. and without getting into it myself, please refer to some others' opinions. http://milesj.me/blog/read/wordpress-is-bad-mmmk http://milesj.me/blog/read/wordpress-is-bad-mmmk http://www.usingwp.com/general-WordPress/why-WordPress-sucks/ http://www.usingwp.com/general-WordPress/why-WordPress-sucks... http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-WordPress-integration-or-why-WordPress-sucks/ http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-WordPress-int... http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-bad-things-about-WordPress/ http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-bad-things-about-WordPress... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1481631/why-is-wordpress-considered-to-be-poorly-programmed http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1481631/why-is-wordpress-... http://someguyjeremy.com/blog/why-i-hate-wordpress http://someguyjeremy.com/blog/why-i-hate-wordpress http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/wordpress-decoupled/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/wordpress-decoupled/
LoganCale 12y ago
No developer I know likes WordPress. In fact, there's almost universal hate and dread about having to work with it. From a user perspective it's decent, but its codebase (and community) is terrible.
- icelancer 12y ago
  Meh. I don't mind it, and it drives some of my eCommerce sites through WooCommerce. Nothing huge of course, but annual sales in the six figures. It's not that bad, really.