4 ms·

>Separate address and search bars is old-fashioned. As a user, I don't want to have to make this distinction, and it's hard to imagine most users-on-street woul

by danford 12y ago

>Separate address and search bars is old-fashioned. As a user, I don't want to have to make this distinction, and it's hard to imagine most users-on-street wouldn't find this confusing Use the customizer. People complain when they change and complain when they don't > The address bar is square edged while the search bar is round edged, which is displeasingly visually. (I realize this is because there's a convention of "search bars are rounded," but the inconsistency remains.) Maybe this is just the Mac version. On Linux they both have about a 3px border radius. >Tapping the hamburger menu on the far right, it appears with a combined drop-and-fade-in effect, and then disappears instantly. Sounds like a bug, not happening on linux though. >The scroller applies a fade effect to incoming content, but only to the text, not the image, which is jarring. Is this only on the slide show or something? That's not really much to complain about. I see web pages with different designs all over the internet. >Multi-touch swipe I have multi touch swipe set up for other things, but that sounds like something that needs work.

nailer 12y ago
>> Separate address and search bars is old-fashioned. As a user, I don't want to have to make this distinction, and it's hard to imagine most users-on-street wouldn't find this confusing > Use the customizer. Most users-on-street don't want to customise either. Edit: The moderation on this is baffling. Does anyone genuinely believe users want to customise to achieve reasonable defaults? HN should ban new users from moderating for a year.
- drewblay 12y ago
  > Most users-on-street don't want to customize either. Most users on the street aren't on the hacker news forum. Also if you are going to play the "most users on the street" game, then most users on the street aren't going to install a browser that didn't come with the OS.
  - nailer 12y ago
    > Most users on the street aren't on the hacker news forum. I don't think anyone said they were. > then most users on the street aren't going to install a browser that didn't come with the OS. That's true. So it's even more important to retain them by having sensible defaults.
    - drewblay 12y ago
      >That's true. So it's even more important to retain them by having sensible defaults. Not really. What is wrong with having a product that caters to a power user, or a niche group? Why does everything have to be dumbed-down for the "user on the street"? If you want dumbed-down then use the browser that came with your OS. If want something that isn't dumbed-down then you most likely have the know-how to customize your toolbar.
      - nailer 12y ago
        There is absolutely nothing wrong with a product for power users. Again, nobody in the thread said there was. Firefox is a browser for everyone. It focuses on freedom and privacy. The browser that came with your OS most likely does not. There is no minimum level of technical expertise required. The UX is designed to be simple.
        drewblay 12y ago
        I still have to disagree with you. I don't buy into your "street person" argument at all. I don't think you give people enough credit. Just about anyone born in the U.S. (or any first world country) in the late 80's and after will probably know how to customize a tool bar in a web browser. Even if they grew up poor and didn't own a computer it would be hard to not have this knowledge after going thru a public school system. If your "street person" happens to be a baby-boomer, then maybe.
        nailer 12y ago
        > Just about anyone born in the U.S. (or any first world country) in the late 80's and after will probably know how to customize a tool bar in a web browser Agreed, but nobody in the thread is debating whether people know to customise a tool bar in a web browser. The only thing that has been questioned is whether most people want to customise a browser to achieve defaults they find reasonable.
- simlevesque 12y ago
  I want my bars separated for safety reasons
  - nailer 12y ago
    I definitely understand this. I'm just responding to a comment saying 'customise it'. if the simplicity argument is true, then 'customise it' is not an appropriate suggestion. The simplicity argument, of course, could not be true, since simplicity may threaten safety in this particular implementation.
- mccr8 12y ago
  > HN should ban new users from moderating for a year. You actually need quite a bit of karma (maybe 500?) on Hacker News before you can downvote things, so anybody downvoting you can't be that new of a user.
  - Jtsummers 12y ago
    > so anybody downvoting you can't be that new of a user. IME, you can earn a lot of karma quickly with links. I'd say 1/3 of my karma came from links, and initially that's what pushed me over the top. So they're most likely not new users, but anyone with a month of submissions could have crossed that threshold. It makes me wonder if the two karmas, and the features that get enabled, should be separate things.
  - nailer 12y ago
    Then I'm baffled. There seems to be a recent trend where non controversial things: - the documentation and character support issues can be 'bugs' - defaults that fit most users are good - reminding someone being personal of the HN guidelines ...get moderated up, then down to -3 or -4, then back up to 1 again.
    - chc 12y ago
      I think it's that your response sounded like a lazy dismissal. Reasonable defaults are good, yes. That's pretty uncontroversial. But nobody has established that Firefox's behavior is less reasonable than the alternative — for example, the comment you were replying to noted that both approaches have their fans — so your out-of-hand rejection on behalf of "users-on-street" sounded imperious.
      - nailer 12y ago
        The only reason I didn't question the behaviour is that the parent didn't either: they just mentioned that most users could customise. Which, as mentioned, they wouldn't want to do. Noticing the folk in the conversation there's lots of newish accounts, and some are replying before they've actually read what they're replying to. Downmods for 'I disagree' are more popular now as well.
- chc 12y ago
  > Most users-on-street don't want to customise either. Since we're talking about one person's preference rather than the results of a user study, that hardly seems relevant.
  - nailer 12y ago
    I suspect the 'people find a single entry field for both search and URLs to be a simpler' could be proved by a study.
- baddox 12y ago
  > Most users-on-street don't want to customise either. I can't imagine that most users-on-street would want or benefit from separate address and search fields either.
- josteink 12y ago
  > Edit: The moderation on this is baffling. Does anyone genuinely believe users want to customise to achieve reasonable defaults? They might find your position unreasonable, and your absolutism not contributing to the discussion. It's absolutely not given that Chrome's behaviour is the "reasonable" default.

by danford 12y ago

nailer 12y ago

>> Separate address and search bars is old-fashioned. As a user, I don't want to have to make this distinction, and it's hard to imagine most users-on-street wouldn't find this confusing > Use the customizer. Most users-on-street don't want to customise either. Edit: The moderation on this is baffling. Does anyone genuinely believe users want to customise to achieve reasonable defaults? HN should ban new users from moderating for a year.

drewblay 12y ago
> Most users-on-street don't want to customize either. Most users on the street aren't on the hacker news forum. Also if you are going to play the "most users on the street" game, then most users on the street aren't going to install a browser that didn't come with the OS.
- nailer 12y ago
  > Most users on the street aren't on the hacker news forum. I don't think anyone said they were. > then most users on the street aren't going to install a browser that didn't come with the OS. That's true. So it's even more important to retain them by having sensible defaults.
  - drewblay 12y ago
    >That's true. So it's even more important to retain them by having sensible defaults. Not really. What is wrong with having a product that caters to a power user, or a niche group? Why does everything have to be dumbed-down for the "user on the street"? If you want dumbed-down then use the browser that came with your OS. If want something that isn't dumbed-down then you most likely have the know-how to customize your toolbar.
    - nailer 12y ago
      There is absolutely nothing wrong with a product for power users. Again, nobody in the thread said there was. Firefox is a browser for everyone. It focuses on freedom and privacy. The browser that came with your OS most likely does not. There is no minimum level of technical expertise required. The UX is designed to be simple.
      - drewblay 12y ago
        I still have to disagree with you. I don't buy into your "street person" argument at all. I don't think you give people enough credit. Just about anyone born in the U.S. (or any first world country) in the late 80's and after will probably know how to customize a tool bar in a web browser. Even if they grew up poor and didn't own a computer it would be hard to not have this knowledge after going thru a public school system. If your "street person" happens to be a baby-boomer, then maybe.
        nailer 12y ago
        > Just about anyone born in the U.S. (or any first world country) in the late 80's and after will probably know how to customize a tool bar in a web browser Agreed, but nobody in the thread is debating whether people know to customise a tool bar in a web browser. The only thing that has been questioned is whether most people want to customise a browser to achieve defaults they find reasonable.
simlevesque 12y ago
I want my bars separated for safety reasons
- nailer 12y ago
  I definitely understand this. I'm just responding to a comment saying 'customise it'. if the simplicity argument is true, then 'customise it' is not an appropriate suggestion. The simplicity argument, of course, could not be true, since simplicity may threaten safety in this particular implementation.
mccr8 12y ago
> HN should ban new users from moderating for a year. You actually need quite a bit of karma (maybe 500?) on Hacker News before you can downvote things, so anybody downvoting you can't be that new of a user.
- Jtsummers 12y ago
  > so anybody downvoting you can't be that new of a user. IME, you can earn a lot of karma quickly with links. I'd say 1/3 of my karma came from links, and initially that's what pushed me over the top. So they're most likely not new users, but anyone with a month of submissions could have crossed that threshold. It makes me wonder if the two karmas, and the features that get enabled, should be separate things.
- nailer 12y ago
  Then I'm baffled. There seems to be a recent trend where non controversial things: - the documentation and character support issues can be 'bugs' - defaults that fit most users are good - reminding someone being personal of the HN guidelines ...get moderated up, then down to -3 or -4, then back up to 1 again.
  - chc 12y ago
    I think it's that your response sounded like a lazy dismissal. Reasonable defaults are good, yes. That's pretty uncontroversial. But nobody has established that Firefox's behavior is less reasonable than the alternative — for example, the comment you were replying to noted that both approaches have their fans — so your out-of-hand rejection on behalf of "users-on-street" sounded imperious.
    - nailer 12y ago
      The only reason I didn't question the behaviour is that the parent didn't either: they just mentioned that most users could customise. Which, as mentioned, they wouldn't want to do. Noticing the folk in the conversation there's lots of newish accounts, and some are replying before they've actually read what they're replying to. Downmods for 'I disagree' are more popular now as well.
chc 12y ago
> Most users-on-street don't want to customise either. Since we're talking about one person's preference rather than the results of a user study, that hardly seems relevant.
- nailer 12y ago
  I suspect the 'people find a single entry field for both search and URLs to be a simpler' could be proved by a study.
baddox 12y ago
> Most users-on-street don't want to customise either. I can't imagine that most users-on-street would want or benefit from separate address and search fields either.
josteink 12y ago
> Edit: The moderation on this is baffling. Does anyone genuinely believe users want to customise to achieve reasonable defaults? They might find your position unreasonable, and your absolutism not contributing to the discussion. It's absolutely not given that Chrome's behaviour is the "reasonable" default.