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Rust gives me the same feeling I had when learning C. I started with BASIC, then learned Java and a bit of Pascal, Perl, etc., but C was my first language with

Rust gives me the same feeling I had when learning C. I started with BASIC, then learned Java and a bit of Pascal, Perl, etc., but C was my first language with pointers. Now it seems silly, but understanding pointers was a huge step to me. There's a before and an after. Getting used to owned/transferable pointers seems to involve a similar step, although it's probably easier this time since I understand what they do. Btw., if you like this kind of intelligent pointers, Vala something similar [1], and the syntax seems a bit easier at first glance. You have owned pointers (and can transfer ownership), shared pointers (with reference counting) and unmanaged pointers. It uses reference counting for all the UI stuff (Vala is highly integrated with Glib and Gtk), since that is usually not performance critical and you'd rather be correct there. If you feel the need to do without reference counting, you can manage memory manually, too. [1]: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ReferenceHandling https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/ReferenceHandling

NAFV_P 13y ago
> Rust gives me the same feeling I had when learning C. I started with BASIC, then learned Java and a bit of Pascal, Perl, etc., but C was my first language with pointers. Now it seems silly, but understanding pointers was a huge step to me. You learned programming the right way round, unlike myself. One of the current problems with the web is that any old noob can learn any old language, so rather than following good advice and learning Python, I hacked C. One of the most interesting things about C is the more proficient you become, the more you use pointer to pointer to pointer of type array of pointer to function that returns a pointer to pointer of type array of pointer to function that returns pointer to void. Proper high level languages just go straight over my head, they're way too complicated.
pcwalton 13y ago
> You have owned pointers (and can transfer ownership), shared pointers (with reference counting) and unmanaged pointers. It uses reference counting for all the UI stuff (Vala is highly integrated with Glib and Gtk), since that is usually not performance critical and you'd rather be correct there. If you feel the need to do without reference counting, you can manage memory manually, too. That doesn't sound safe—what if unowned pointers outlive the owned pointer, and you get use-after-free? I don't believe it's possible to avoid pervasive reference counting or GC in a practical sense, and still be safe, without something like lifetimes built into the type system.

NAFV_P 13y ago

> Rust gives me the same feeling I had when learning C. I started with BASIC, then learned Java and a bit of Pascal, Perl, etc., but C was my first language with pointers. Now it seems silly, but understanding pointers was a huge step to me. You learned programming the right way round, unlike myself. One of the current problems with the web is that any old noob can learn any old language, so rather than following good advice and learning Python, I hacked C. One of the most interesting things about C is the more proficient you become, the more you use pointer to pointer to pointer of type array of pointer to function that returns a pointer to pointer of type array of pointer to function that returns pointer to void. Proper high level languages just go straight over my head, they're way too complicated.

pcwalton 13y ago

> You have owned pointers (and can transfer ownership), shared pointers (with reference counting) and unmanaged pointers. It uses reference counting for all the UI stuff (Vala is highly integrated with Glib and Gtk), since that is usually not performance critical and you'd rather be correct there. If you feel the need to do without reference counting, you can manage memory manually, too. That doesn't sound safe—what if unowned pointers outlive the owned pointer, and you get use-after-free? I don't believe it's possible to avoid pervasive reference counting or GC in a practical sense, and still be safe, without something like lifetimes built into the type system.