5 ms·

> Netflix previous to this had considerable power to stop the tiered internet but they actually are defining the moment it separates. Netflix's history will inc

> Netflix previous to this had considerable power to stop the tiered internet but they actually are defining the moment it separates. Netflix's history will include fueling the demise of network neutrality. Hyperbole much? This is a peering agreement. It has nothing to do with "network neutrality"--a phrase that is vague and hollow enough to mean absolutely nothing.

davorak 12y ago
> It has nothing to do with "network neutrality"--a phrase that is vague and hollow enough to mean absolutely nothing. The definition that google gives when searching for "define network neutrality" matched my understanding and does not seem vague: "the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites."
- mbreese 12y ago
  But note, it doesn't say that ISPs have to have the same size pipe to all peers. Which was the problem in this case... Comcast, et al. didn't want to upgrade their Cogent links to handle the required traffic from Netflix. Everyone sending Comcast traffic through Cogent was equally penalized during prime time hours. You can argue it's poor network management, but it is still "neutral".
  - davorak 12y ago
    > Comcast, et al. didn't want to upgrade their Cogent links to handle the required traffic from Netflix. Everyone sending Comcast traffic through Cogent was equally penalized during prime time hours. You can argue it's poor network management, but it is still "neutral". That is my understanding. My comment was just pointing out that "net neutrality" is not considered a vague term by a considerable number of people. I do think it is unfortunate that Netflix is incentivized to make this type of deal rather then their ISP.
    - insaneirish 12y ago
      It doesn't matter that it has a definition. The so-called definition just adds to the ambiguity. The Internet is a very complicated thing and getting your packets from A to B is a technical and contractual miracle. What does it mean to treat all packets equally? If I have "equal" connectivity to content sources X and Y, but X sends 10 times the amount of traffic that can fit in its pipe, it's very "neutral" of me to do nothing about it. And then the experience sucks for everyone.
      - davorak 12y ago
        >What does it mean to treat all packets equally? The definition that google gives and I quoted does not not contain that phrase. > If I have "equal" connectivity to content sources X and Y, but X sends 10 times the amount of traffic that can fit in its pipe, it's very "neutral" of me to do nothing about it. And then the experience sucks for everyone. The ISP has the option to charge more per packet until it makes economical sense. The increased revenue would allow the ISP to increase infrastructure and incentivizes heavy users to reduce their use. That is one of at least a few options ISPs have while remaining net neutral.
        insaneirish 12y ago
        This is what happened! Verizon and Comcast are charging Netflix more!
        davorak 12y ago
        I thought Cogent was netflix ISP. So it does not seem like their ISP is charging them more.
AngrySkillzz 12y ago
Explanation required, please.
drawkbox 12y ago
This gives precedence and license to Comcast and Verizon to play more games. To think it won't greatly change their power and pricing behind the line is naive. This is just the beginning. It isn't about better service, it is about extortion. Immediately after the Sept. ruling these Cogent connections seemingly started to downgrade in unison: http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/04/25/this-hilarious-graph-of-netflix-speeds-shows-the-importance-of-net-neutrality/ http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/04/25/this-hilarious... They aren't providing faster service, they are providing the service levels they took away, the extortion is to get back to normal levels. Netflix just made extortion part of the game behind the consumer line (of course Verizon and Comcast want that but Netflix just made their future much more murky). This will hit consumers in 2-3 years for sure. Tell me I am being hyperbolic in a year or two when your broadband/content services just doubled... in cost, while not doubling in speed or service. This also coincides with a Netflix rise in rates as proof already.

davorak 12y ago

> It has nothing to do with "network neutrality"--a phrase that is vague and hollow enough to mean absolutely nothing. The definition that google gives when searching for "define network neutrality" matched my understanding and does not seem vague: "the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites."

mbreese 12y ago
But note, it doesn't say that ISPs have to have the same size pipe to all peers. Which was the problem in this case... Comcast, et al. didn't want to upgrade their Cogent links to handle the required traffic from Netflix. Everyone sending Comcast traffic through Cogent was equally penalized during prime time hours. You can argue it's poor network management, but it is still "neutral".
- davorak 12y ago
  > Comcast, et al. didn't want to upgrade their Cogent links to handle the required traffic from Netflix. Everyone sending Comcast traffic through Cogent was equally penalized during prime time hours. You can argue it's poor network management, but it is still "neutral". That is my understanding. My comment was just pointing out that "net neutrality" is not considered a vague term by a considerable number of people. I do think it is unfortunate that Netflix is incentivized to make this type of deal rather then their ISP.
  - insaneirish 12y ago
    It doesn't matter that it has a definition. The so-called definition just adds to the ambiguity. The Internet is a very complicated thing and getting your packets from A to B is a technical and contractual miracle. What does it mean to treat all packets equally? If I have "equal" connectivity to content sources X and Y, but X sends 10 times the amount of traffic that can fit in its pipe, it's very "neutral" of me to do nothing about it. And then the experience sucks for everyone.
    - davorak 12y ago
      >What does it mean to treat all packets equally? The definition that google gives and I quoted does not not contain that phrase. > If I have "equal" connectivity to content sources X and Y, but X sends 10 times the amount of traffic that can fit in its pipe, it's very "neutral" of me to do nothing about it. And then the experience sucks for everyone. The ISP has the option to charge more per packet until it makes economical sense. The increased revenue would allow the ISP to increase infrastructure and incentivizes heavy users to reduce their use. That is one of at least a few options ISPs have while remaining net neutral.
      - insaneirish 12y ago
        This is what happened! Verizon and Comcast are charging Netflix more!
        davorak 12y ago
        I thought Cogent was netflix ISP. So it does not seem like their ISP is charging them more.

AngrySkillzz 12y ago

Explanation required, please.

drawkbox 12y ago

This gives precedence and license to Comcast and Verizon to play more games. To think it won't greatly change their power and pricing behind the line is naive. This is just the beginning. It isn't about better service, it is about extortion. Immediately after the Sept. ruling these Cogent connections seemingly started to downgrade in unison: http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/04/25/this-hilarious-graph-of-netflix-speeds-shows-the-importance-of-net-neutrality/ http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/04/25/this-hilarious... They aren't providing faster service, they are providing the service levels they took away, the extortion is to get back to normal levels. Netflix just made extortion part of the game behind the consumer line (of course Verizon and Comcast want that but Netflix just made their future much more murky). This will hit consumers in 2-3 years for sure. Tell me I am being hyperbolic in a year or two when your broadband/content services just doubled... in cost, while not doubling in speed or service. This also coincides with a Netflix rise in rates as proof already.