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Very much this. This report doesn't discredit's Horvath's perspective of sexism, it in fact supports it. The reality that there isn't sexism in general isn't in

Very much this. This report doesn't discredit's Horvath's perspective of sexism, it in fact supports it. The reality that there isn't sexism in general isn't in-congruent with that. The report also speaks of github's HR failures (that a founder (indirectly) was able to harass her repeatedly because of her gender), which Horvath explained as being a big reason for her view of sexism at the company.

rhizome 12y ago
I'm led to think that Tom Preston-Werner got off easy here. failure to enforce an agreement that his spouse should not work in the office It had been a big enough problem before that they had a formal agreement prohibiting it.
- asuffield 12y ago
  Why did he get off easy? Who's going to work for him now?
  - rhizome 12y ago
    Just off the top of my head, he was allowed to resign rather than fired for cause.
    - offbrand 12y ago
      Perhaps he resigned before the investigation was over.
      - rhizome 12y ago
        It's right there in the statement: After being presented with the results we felt Tom could no longer be an effective leader at GitHub. He offered his resignation and we accepted.
    - asuffield 12y ago
      I don't mean he'll have trouble getting hired - he won't. This probably won't hurt his "career" per se. I mean he'll have trouble hiring people to work for him. I'd certainly think twice (and this is not an entirely casual statement since I'm an engineer and a startup guy) - not because of the allegations, but because the result of a careful investigation was that he made it an unpleasant place to work for some of his employees by being confrontational, disregarding complaints, and being insensitive to something that wasn't a problem for him personally. I do not want to work in a place like that, and I'd be worried that he'd do it again. It won't stop everybody from working for him. He'll still get plenty of graduate attention. But putting together a good startup team is hard, and this kind of verdict might make it impossible.
  - smirksirlot 12y ago
    Given that Marc Andreessen publicly vocalized support for him and his new venture, I hardly think he'll have much trouble with his career.
    - lexcorvus 12y ago
      Not to mention that he probably owns over $200m worth of GitHub stock.
chippy 12y ago
I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that to Horvath her personal perspective was that it was sexist, that the report said it was not actually sexist, but that doesn't discredit her personal perspective of the matter? Edits - let me clarify: I think this would go far in explaining why Horvath is reacting as she has been doing to the report. But I'm struggling to understand if this means that the personal subjective interpretation is more valuable to the truth than an objective independent investigation? (Now I think that the investigation on the whole may not have been at all independent - only to ensure that Github was in the clear legally - with no obligation to the truth or to expose any other things - but I think that's out of this side discussion!)
- SolarNet 12y ago
  I'm saying they are of similar weight, to be clear Github's interpretation of the events and Horvath's interpretation of the events are both valid perspectives, neither can be invalid, to the party in question. We have to weight them the way we see fit, and the ones that have the most evidence of being generally true. An investigation found no legal liability of sexism but that doesn't mean there isn't a culture aspect to it. On the other hand Horvath's experience with the founder may have colored her view of the culture. I'm saying Github's interpretation of events and Horvath's interpretation are consistent, they don't conflict, hence they can both be true at the moment.

rhizome 12y ago

I'm led to think that Tom Preston-Werner got off easy here. failure to enforce an agreement that his spouse should not work in the office It had been a big enough problem before that they had a formal agreement prohibiting it.

asuffield 12y ago
Why did he get off easy? Who's going to work for him now?
- rhizome 12y ago
  Just off the top of my head, he was allowed to resign rather than fired for cause.
  - offbrand 12y ago
    Perhaps he resigned before the investigation was over.
    - rhizome 12y ago
      It's right there in the statement: After being presented with the results we felt Tom could no longer be an effective leader at GitHub. He offered his resignation and we accepted.
  - asuffield 12y ago
    I don't mean he'll have trouble getting hired - he won't. This probably won't hurt his "career" per se. I mean he'll have trouble hiring people to work for him. I'd certainly think twice (and this is not an entirely casual statement since I'm an engineer and a startup guy) - not because of the allegations, but because the result of a careful investigation was that he made it an unpleasant place to work for some of his employees by being confrontational, disregarding complaints, and being insensitive to something that wasn't a problem for him personally. I do not want to work in a place like that, and I'd be worried that he'd do it again. It won't stop everybody from working for him. He'll still get plenty of graduate attention. But putting together a good startup team is hard, and this kind of verdict might make it impossible.
- smirksirlot 12y ago
  Given that Marc Andreessen publicly vocalized support for him and his new venture, I hardly think he'll have much trouble with his career.
  - lexcorvus 12y ago
    Not to mention that he probably owns over $200m worth of GitHub stock.

chippy 12y ago

I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that to Horvath her personal perspective was that it was sexist, that the report said it was not actually sexist, but that doesn't discredit her personal perspective of the matter? Edits - let me clarify: I think this would go far in explaining why Horvath is reacting as she has been doing to the report. But I'm struggling to understand if this means that the personal subjective interpretation is more valuable to the truth than an objective independent investigation? (Now I think that the investigation on the whole may not have been at all independent - only to ensure that Github was in the clear legally - with no obligation to the truth or to expose any other things - but I think that's out of this side discussion!)

SolarNet 12y ago
I'm saying they are of similar weight, to be clear Github's interpretation of the events and Horvath's interpretation of the events are both valid perspectives, neither can be invalid, to the party in question. We have to weight them the way we see fit, and the ones that have the most evidence of being generally true. An investigation found no legal liability of sexism but that doesn't mean there isn't a culture aspect to it. On the other hand Horvath's experience with the founder may have colored her view of the culture. I'm saying Github's interpretation of events and Horvath's interpretation are consistent, they don't conflict, hence they can both be true at the moment.