10 ms·

If only there were another woman to whom very similar events had happened at GitHub...someone well-respected, like, I dunno, the very first hire they ever made.

If only there were another woman to whom very similar events had happened at GitHub...someone well-respected, like, I dunno, the very first hire they ever made...if only she had an incredibly similar story to tell that ended with her leaving and then winning a settlement from the company for the abuse she suffered...OH WAIT "We've confirmed with a GitHub employee that "the wife" is in fact Theresa Preston-Werner, making her husband complicit in covering up (or at least condoning) repeated allegations of harassment and abuse at the company he helped create. We're told this is certainly not the first time the Preston-Werners have treated a female employee this way: Melissa Severini, the company's very first hire, was allegedly paid to sign a non-disparagement agreement after being victimized by Theresa Preston-Werners and subsequently terminated. Other employees have been pressured to do pro bono work for Theresa Preston-Werner's own startup, Omakase." (From ValleyWag, March 17th) According to Severini's Twitter feed (as of early April), the "investigator" never contacted her.

b0z0 12y ago
This is great and all, but it's something that happened in the past and was settled, so I'm not sure how relevant it was in this case in particular. I think you're blurring a past mistake (this should have raised flags from the beginning) with the current events.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  "This happened before" isn't relevant?
  - b0z0 12y ago
    I guess I'm digging myself in a hole here since apparently my opinion isn't very popular. But I just wanted to explain why I said what I did, based on a moment of reflection: - Founder allegations: sounds like they already came to the conclusion that TPW wasn't acting appropriately, so I'm not sure what the fact that it happened before adds to that. - Engineer allegations: this is about people other than TPW. - Github's working environment: Maybe Severini could have added some dishing on TPW, in particular (but not necessarily the company). But given the non-disparagement agreement and the fact that her feelings are apparently general knowledge, was another interview with her really necessary? As @waterlesscloud says above, I'm wondering, "Is anyone disputing the activities of the Preston-Werners at this point?" The fact that it's happened before is relevant if you want to dish more on TPW's character or the fact that GH made a mistake, both of which have already been done. Adding more at this point is almost sensationalist.
    - mtrimpe 12y ago
      Up until know, when evaluating GitHub's reaction, we assumed the other co-founders wouldn't have known about this. If they had a similar thing happen a while ago where someone was let go, in a company that prides itself for employee retention no less, that changes our evaluation. It just means they condoned Tom's behaviour knowing first hand that it was problematic and had been for a long time; essentially lending credence to Julie-Ann's statement that the culture was toxic. Based on the response I'd say that there's a good chance the toxicity might have largely stemmed from the management team not wanting to oust a co-founder, so there's a good chance it's ""fixed"" now, but that still doesn't excuse their lack of inaction until now.
      - bwy 12y ago
        > Up until know, when evaluating GitHub's reaction, we assumed the other co-founders wouldn't have known about this. I'm not sure how they wouldn't have known about the settlement with Severind, if that's what you're talking about. For the rest of your post, yes, I agree, it means they made a big mistake (even bigger? Probably.) And that mistake probably did contribute to a bad* environment, as tons of people have already mentioned with the PWs and pressure about the wife's work. My point is that these shortcomings have already been documented and admitted. What did the fact that it's happened before add to that? * Note: Be very careful, though, about accepting adjectives such as "toxic" at face value: she can say whatever she wants without damaging herself in this case, but people have a funny tendency to use strong words to describe things that, objectively, just aren't that big of a deal. For example, my school's newspaper had a reporter complaining about being "violently rejected" because someone didn't respond to a text. No joke. Call my well poisoned by that experience, but based on her Twitter posts (some guy deleting her code for not f*ing her, for which there is no proof), I don't know how reliable her description is.
    - samstave 12y ago
      >- Founder allegations: sounds like they already came to the conclusion that TPW wasn't acting appropriately, so I'm not sure what the fact that it happened before adds to that. This implies that this is an endemic behavior from tis person, and it would seem that she is an organizational cancer. This would appear to me to be a super red-flag on her involvement in any company; ESPECIALLY given the fact that she appears to be branding herself as some sort of women-in-business-thought-leader.... From my outside, very ignorant view-point, she seems to be working exactly against what she claims to be leading in; she is an exceedingly poor example of how female business leaders should operate. My personal opinion would be that she felt like she had some status/power and it just turned her into a horrible person where she thought that said power/status meant she could actt however she liked.
deleted 12y ago
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deleted 12y ago
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- Asparagirl 12y ago
  You're confusing Julie's Twitter feed for Melissa's. EDIT: See? https://mobile.twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/tweets https://mobile.twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/tweets
  - mimiflynn 12y ago
    A more specific url: https://twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/status/453380705846693888 https://twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/status/453380705846693888
    - malandrew 12y ago
      Who is the Julie Esson that also replied back claiming they were not contacted either? A naïve search doesn't show her being involved with github in any way. http://au.linkedin.com/pub/julie-esson/46/644/b89 http://au.linkedin.com/pub/julie-esson/46/644/b89
      - golden_apples 12y ago
        >> I [was] not contacted during my investigation either. ie, not necessarily related to the exact situation at github, but referring to a situation at another company.
bradhe 12y ago
"...after being victimized by Theresa Preston-Werners and subsequently terminated." Pretty vague, are there any details on WTF happened? Also, if IS valleywag...
waterlesscloud 12y ago
Is anyone disputing the activities of the Preston-Werners at this point? This report clearly states there were issues with the Preston-Werners, and he's been made to leave the company.
- jobu 12y ago
  Teresa Preston-Werner posted something on her blog that disputes (or at least adds more info) : https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e It's a bit of a she-said, she-said situation, except that it seems to have happened before with the Preston-Werners and Melissa Severini.
  - lfhlghglhdbdg 12y ago
    The startup I work at had a lucky escape - there was a potential hire for a marketing director, but she was a well known femtard, and worse had a reputation for causing trouble. So, did not hire. Sure enough, 6 months in employment with a competitor, she already brought two cases against them for nebulous gender-bias accusations, and has publically damaged the brand of the company. Going forward, I suspect more employers will actively screen against loud-mouth femtards, less they bring more trouble then they are worth to the company.
    - smoyer 12y ago
      I know you're not supposed to feed the trolls, but I can't stop myself ... as the father of a mentally handicapped son, I'm offended by your use of the 'tard suffix. As the father of two daughters, I'm also offended by your characterization of feminism (and feminists) as radical activists. These do exist (even some that lie as your example implies) but don't impune those that believe in gender equality with such a horrendous label. If you can't resist, at least be man enough to post using a real account.
      - coherentpony 12y ago
        This is admirable. I wish you and your family the best. Take a break, simmer down, and ignore the cunt that wound you up. They are just someone behind an internet connection, and they will have no effect on your life or the success of your children's lives. Unless, of course, you let them. It takes a stronger person to rise above the rest and lead by example. I'm not sure why I felt the need to tell you that, because I'm sure you knew already. You probably give your children the same advice. Anyway, I hope you're alright.
yulaow 12y ago
Just a question partially unrelated: Since when it is legal to make a non-disparagement agreement? It is like a wtf limitation of freedom to speech and tell the truth Never ever heard of something like this in EU and I can find only articles related to US. Anyone can instruct me?
- asuffield 12y ago
  In general there is no legal or moral barrier to being paid for your silence, as long as you are not covering up an actual crime by doing so. Keep in mind that this isn't an employment contract clause, it is a cash bribe to stay quiet. Your freedom is not impaired: you have the choice between saying whatever you like or taking the money.
  - dpweb 12y ago
    No judgement on GH but isn't a cash bribe to cover up harassment exactly that - covering up a crime? California doesn't have state laws against harassment?
    - tadfisher 12y ago
      There are civil and criminal statutes, yes. Presumably nothing criminal occurred or the contract is unenforceable.
    - opendais 12y ago
      I'm pretty sure those are civil laws and involve financial penalties [fine], not jail time. A crime is a misdemeanor/felony/etc, not a fine. I'm not a lawyer tho so I could be wrong.
    - Nelson69 12y ago
      With the massive prevalence of twitter, facebook, tumblr and other social platforms where people not just speak about work but are actually hired in this day because of their crowd appeal, I think these agreements are a lot less about covering up crimes. Far more torrid things have happened at the biggest companies in the world. Stuff like outright sexual favors for advancement. Just bad stuff, the big difference seems to be active HR, active corporate attorneys and the general ban on talking about what goes on at work in your social media. It doesn't take many 6 figure settlements to "fix the culture" at a place, and if fixing it means removing a highup officer, that happens too (http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2012/11/13/lockheed-martin-ceo-to-be-scandal.html http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2012/11/13/lockhe...) Honestly, I'd think more start-ups would start to develop more serious twitter and social media policies. I don't know of one that didn't have some disgruntled former employees, just due to the demands and the personal nature of start-ups.
sjs382 12y ago
Quote via Valleywag: http://valleywag.gawker.com/meet-the-married-duo-behind-techs-biggest-new-harassme-1545685104 http://valleywag.gawker.com/meet-the-married-duo-behind-tech...
abalone 12y ago
Wait, what is the "incredibly similar story"? Is that public? I thought she signed a non-disparagement agreement and we don't know the actual circumstances.
argonaut 12y ago
I'd be very interested in hearing new facts about the circumstances of Melissa Severini. The only problem is that the only source we have on this is Valleywag, a publication whose integrity is roughly on the same level as the stuff you stock lavatories with.
- nailer 12y ago
  Isn't 'ValleyWag' actually located on the other side of the US?
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    If only there were some sort of communications network that might make it possible for people on one side of the country to converse with those on the opposite...
    - nailer 12y ago
      The best gossip happens offline.
xpaulbettsx 12y ago
Citation needed

b0z0 12y ago

This is great and all, but it's something that happened in the past and was settled, so I'm not sure how relevant it was in this case in particular. I think you're blurring a past mistake (this should have raised flags from the beginning) with the current events.

ceejayoz 12y ago
"This happened before" isn't relevant?
- b0z0 12y ago
  I guess I'm digging myself in a hole here since apparently my opinion isn't very popular. But I just wanted to explain why I said what I did, based on a moment of reflection: - Founder allegations: sounds like they already came to the conclusion that TPW wasn't acting appropriately, so I'm not sure what the fact that it happened before adds to that. - Engineer allegations: this is about people other than TPW. - Github's working environment: Maybe Severini could have added some dishing on TPW, in particular (but not necessarily the company). But given the non-disparagement agreement and the fact that her feelings are apparently general knowledge, was another interview with her really necessary? As @waterlesscloud says above, I'm wondering, "Is anyone disputing the activities of the Preston-Werners at this point?" The fact that it's happened before is relevant if you want to dish more on TPW's character or the fact that GH made a mistake, both of which have already been done. Adding more at this point is almost sensationalist.
  - mtrimpe 12y ago
    Up until know, when evaluating GitHub's reaction, we assumed the other co-founders wouldn't have known about this. If they had a similar thing happen a while ago where someone was let go, in a company that prides itself for employee retention no less, that changes our evaluation. It just means they condoned Tom's behaviour knowing first hand that it was problematic and had been for a long time; essentially lending credence to Julie-Ann's statement that the culture was toxic. Based on the response I'd say that there's a good chance the toxicity might have largely stemmed from the management team not wanting to oust a co-founder, so there's a good chance it's ""fixed"" now, but that still doesn't excuse their lack of inaction until now.
    - bwy 12y ago
      > Up until know, when evaluating GitHub's reaction, we assumed the other co-founders wouldn't have known about this. I'm not sure how they wouldn't have known about the settlement with Severind, if that's what you're talking about. For the rest of your post, yes, I agree, it means they made a big mistake (even bigger? Probably.) And that mistake probably did contribute to a bad* environment, as tons of people have already mentioned with the PWs and pressure about the wife's work. My point is that these shortcomings have already been documented and admitted. What did the fact that it's happened before add to that? * Note: Be very careful, though, about accepting adjectives such as "toxic" at face value: she can say whatever she wants without damaging herself in this case, but people have a funny tendency to use strong words to describe things that, objectively, just aren't that big of a deal. For example, my school's newspaper had a reporter complaining about being "violently rejected" because someone didn't respond to a text. No joke. Call my well poisoned by that experience, but based on her Twitter posts (some guy deleting her code for not f*ing her, for which there is no proof), I don't know how reliable her description is.
  - samstave 12y ago
    >- Founder allegations: sounds like they already came to the conclusion that TPW wasn't acting appropriately, so I'm not sure what the fact that it happened before adds to that. This implies that this is an endemic behavior from tis person, and it would seem that she is an organizational cancer. This would appear to me to be a super red-flag on her involvement in any company; ESPECIALLY given the fact that she appears to be branding herself as some sort of women-in-business-thought-leader.... From my outside, very ignorant view-point, she seems to be working exactly against what she claims to be leading in; she is an exceedingly poor example of how female business leaders should operate. My personal opinion would be that she felt like she had some status/power and it just turned her into a horrible person where she thought that said power/status meant she could actt however she liked.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

Asparagirl 12y ago
You're confusing Julie's Twitter feed for Melissa's. EDIT: See? https://mobile.twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/tweets https://mobile.twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/tweets
- mimiflynn 12y ago
  A more specific url: https://twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/status/453380705846693888 https://twitter.com/luckiestmonkey/status/453380705846693888
  - malandrew 12y ago
    Who is the Julie Esson that also replied back claiming they were not contacted either? A naïve search doesn't show her being involved with github in any way. http://au.linkedin.com/pub/julie-esson/46/644/b89 http://au.linkedin.com/pub/julie-esson/46/644/b89
    - golden_apples 12y ago
      >> I [was] not contacted during my investigation either. ie, not necessarily related to the exact situation at github, but referring to a situation at another company.

bradhe 12y ago

"...after being victimized by Theresa Preston-Werners and subsequently terminated." Pretty vague, are there any details on WTF happened? Also, if IS valleywag...

waterlesscloud 12y ago

Is anyone disputing the activities of the Preston-Werners at this point? This report clearly states there were issues with the Preston-Werners, and he's been made to leave the company.

jobu 12y ago
Teresa Preston-Werner posted something on her blog that disputes (or at least adds more info) : https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e It's a bit of a she-said, she-said situation, except that it seems to have happened before with the Preston-Werners and Melissa Severini.
- lfhlghglhdbdg 12y ago
  The startup I work at had a lucky escape - there was a potential hire for a marketing director, but she was a well known femtard, and worse had a reputation for causing trouble. So, did not hire. Sure enough, 6 months in employment with a competitor, she already brought two cases against them for nebulous gender-bias accusations, and has publically damaged the brand of the company. Going forward, I suspect more employers will actively screen against loud-mouth femtards, less they bring more trouble then they are worth to the company.
  - smoyer 12y ago
    I know you're not supposed to feed the trolls, but I can't stop myself ... as the father of a mentally handicapped son, I'm offended by your use of the 'tard suffix. As the father of two daughters, I'm also offended by your characterization of feminism (and feminists) as radical activists. These do exist (even some that lie as your example implies) but don't impune those that believe in gender equality with such a horrendous label. If you can't resist, at least be man enough to post using a real account.
    - coherentpony 12y ago
      This is admirable. I wish you and your family the best. Take a break, simmer down, and ignore the cunt that wound you up. They are just someone behind an internet connection, and they will have no effect on your life or the success of your children's lives. Unless, of course, you let them. It takes a stronger person to rise above the rest and lead by example. I'm not sure why I felt the need to tell you that, because I'm sure you knew already. You probably give your children the same advice. Anyway, I hope you're alright.

yulaow 12y ago

Just a question partially unrelated: Since when it is legal to make a non-disparagement agreement? It is like a wtf limitation of freedom to speech and tell the truth Never ever heard of something like this in EU and I can find only articles related to US. Anyone can instruct me?

asuffield 12y ago
In general there is no legal or moral barrier to being paid for your silence, as long as you are not covering up an actual crime by doing so. Keep in mind that this isn't an employment contract clause, it is a cash bribe to stay quiet. Your freedom is not impaired: you have the choice between saying whatever you like or taking the money.
- dpweb 12y ago
  No judgement on GH but isn't a cash bribe to cover up harassment exactly that - covering up a crime? California doesn't have state laws against harassment?
  - tadfisher 12y ago
    There are civil and criminal statutes, yes. Presumably nothing criminal occurred or the contract is unenforceable.
  - opendais 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure those are civil laws and involve financial penalties [fine], not jail time. A crime is a misdemeanor/felony/etc, not a fine. I'm not a lawyer tho so I could be wrong.
  - Nelson69 12y ago
    With the massive prevalence of twitter, facebook, tumblr and other social platforms where people not just speak about work but are actually hired in this day because of their crowd appeal, I think these agreements are a lot less about covering up crimes. Far more torrid things have happened at the biggest companies in the world. Stuff like outright sexual favors for advancement. Just bad stuff, the big difference seems to be active HR, active corporate attorneys and the general ban on talking about what goes on at work in your social media. It doesn't take many 6 figure settlements to "fix the culture" at a place, and if fixing it means removing a highup officer, that happens too (http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2012/11/13/lockheed-martin-ceo-to-be-scandal.html http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2012/11/13/lockhe...) Honestly, I'd think more start-ups would start to develop more serious twitter and social media policies. I don't know of one that didn't have some disgruntled former employees, just due to the demands and the personal nature of start-ups.

sjs382 12y ago

Quote via Valleywag: http://valleywag.gawker.com/meet-the-married-duo-behind-techs-biggest-new-harassme-1545685104 http://valleywag.gawker.com/meet-the-married-duo-behind-tech...

abalone 12y ago

Wait, what is the "incredibly similar story"? Is that public? I thought she signed a non-disparagement agreement and we don't know the actual circumstances.

argonaut 12y ago

I'd be very interested in hearing new facts about the circumstances of Melissa Severini. The only problem is that the only source we have on this is Valleywag, a publication whose integrity is roughly on the same level as the stuff you stock lavatories with.

nailer 12y ago
Isn't 'ValleyWag' actually located on the other side of the US?
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  If only there were some sort of communications network that might make it possible for people on one side of the country to converse with those on the opposite...
  - nailer 12y ago
    The best gossip happens offline.

xpaulbettsx 12y ago

Citation needed