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To clarify this point: at the time I meant "imagination" in a human context, as the ability to create new thought systems to operate in, as opposed to doing res

To clarify this point: at the time I meant "imagination" in a human context, as the ability to create new thought systems to operate in, as opposed to doing research within an existing thought framework (typically inherited from your thesis advisor, etc.). This is analogous to creating a new market with a completely new type of product vs. entering an existing market, for companies. No, I do not believe there is anything special about human intelligence. Artificial consciousness is among my research interests. As for artificial imagination, it is not exactly "covered in theory" by our current understanding of AI or the human mind --the only kind of AI we know are AIs that operate within rule systems determined by humans. Let's take a simple example, the most general AI we know of, genetic algorithms: if you launch a genetic algorithm to find a solution to some problem, it will merely search through a search space you will have to determine yourself. Artificial imagination would the capability to expand or modify that search space based on previous findings...

AndrewKemendo 12y ago
>at the time I meant "imagination" in a human context, as the ability to create new thought systems to operate in, as opposed to doing research within an existing thought framework (typically inherited from your thesis advisor, etc.). I think that is a good enough definition for imagination universally - and I would still not differentiate. How we do it is not known, but it is not unknowable. At least I don't think so. So stating that it will never happen is a bridge too far and I think built on shaky rafters. >Artificial imagination would the capability to expand or modify that search space based on previous findings... Check out some of the evolved antennas that came out of AIAA a few years ago. Would that not meet this definition? There is also some work with computer vision that modify prior outputs for new inputs in searches, so that would meet the definition you give. That said, I won't argue that we have good examples of working imaginations in practice or research - though I bet there are some that I haven't seen - but at least there are papers on the theory. I even have a few of my own ideas that I just haven't put on paper.
nnq 12y ago
> it will merely search through a search space you will have to determine yourself What makes you think "human imagination" is any different, qualitatively at least? Yes, our minds have a humongous search space at their disposal: what comes through our sense organs, the processed memories of our entire lives and the ability to consume information in formats that are very hard for current AI systems to make sense of (ambiguous written sources, like most of the world's literature, ambiguous communication in form of conversations, art etc.). Add this with the fact that we can all communicate and the search space becomes as big as the minds of the entire human beings alive (thoug admitedly, you have very pool bandwith and availability of access to this amount of information), plus the transmitted pieces from the ones before, and that this space is ever expanding, and you get the "miracle of human imagination". ...but a human level AI will have access to the same thing (by definition, because otherwise we wouldn't call it "human level AI"), so the same kind of "imagination" but augmented by 10...0x times better connectivity and access to it and everything related. Also, the search space is fixed for human minds too, it's called the universe, and at least if we accept the scientific-objective world view, we don't make it any larger by imagining things (if I imagine a new particle, it doesn't just pop into existence out of my imagination). The only way to defend a difference between "human imagination" and "artificial imagination" is to go against the science based and objective world view. EDIT: typed "intelligence" instead of "imagination" at the end, sorry...
- arethuza 12y ago
  As an aside, although I completely agree with you, for an alternative fictional perspective I can recommend Neal Stephenson's Anathem - there is one particular section about the mind modelling the universe that I am completely entranced by (and as a bit of background I worked for years as an AI researcher working on systems modelling). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
>Let's take a simple example, the most general AI we know of, genetic algorithms But that's not the most general AI we know of. Goedel Machines are the most general AI we know of.

AndrewKemendo 12y ago

>at the time I meant "imagination" in a human context, as the ability to create new thought systems to operate in, as opposed to doing research within an existing thought framework (typically inherited from your thesis advisor, etc.). I think that is a good enough definition for imagination universally - and I would still not differentiate. How we do it is not known, but it is not unknowable. At least I don't think so. So stating that it will never happen is a bridge too far and I think built on shaky rafters. >Artificial imagination would the capability to expand or modify that search space based on previous findings... Check out some of the evolved antennas that came out of AIAA a few years ago. Would that not meet this definition? There is also some work with computer vision that modify prior outputs for new inputs in searches, so that would meet the definition you give. That said, I won't argue that we have good examples of working imaginations in practice or research - though I bet there are some that I haven't seen - but at least there are papers on the theory. I even have a few of my own ideas that I just haven't put on paper.

nnq 12y ago

> it will merely search through a search space you will have to determine yourself What makes you think "human imagination" is any different, qualitatively at least? Yes, our minds have a humongous search space at their disposal: what comes through our sense organs, the processed memories of our entire lives and the ability to consume information in formats that are very hard for current AI systems to make sense of (ambiguous written sources, like most of the world's literature, ambiguous communication in form of conversations, art etc.). Add this with the fact that we can all communicate and the search space becomes as big as the minds of the entire human beings alive (thoug admitedly, you have very pool bandwith and availability of access to this amount of information), plus the transmitted pieces from the ones before, and that this space is ever expanding, and you get the "miracle of human imagination". ...but a human level AI will have access to the same thing (by definition, because otherwise we wouldn't call it "human level AI"), so the same kind of "imagination" but augmented by 10...0x times better connectivity and access to it and everything related. Also, the search space is fixed for human minds too, it's called the universe, and at least if we accept the scientific-objective world view, we don't make it any larger by imagining things (if I imagine a new particle, it doesn't just pop into existence out of my imagination). The only way to defend a difference between "human imagination" and "artificial imagination" is to go against the science based and objective world view. EDIT: typed "intelligence" instead of "imagination" at the end, sorry...

arethuza 12y ago
As an aside, although I completely agree with you, for an alternative fictional perspective I can recommend Neal Stephenson's Anathem - there is one particular section about the mind modelling the universe that I am completely entranced by (and as a bit of background I worked for years as an AI researcher working on systems modelling). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem

eli_gottlieb 12y ago

>Let's take a simple example, the most general AI we know of, genetic algorithms But that's not the most general AI we know of. Goedel Machines are the most general AI we know of.