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Not a great title, but a good article, nonetheless. If you're interested in machine intelligence, you need to spend some time with infants. I have a nine month

Not a great title, but a good article, nonetheless. If you're interested in machine intelligence, you need to spend some time with infants. I have a nine month old, and it's been really interesting to watch her develop. You can see where people get these ideas of multiple agents interacting. For a while, anytime her hand was within a certain distance from her face, it would "snap" to her mouth. She'd clearly be trying to do something else, but then the hand would get close to the mouth, and OMNOMNOM. Pattern matching and mimicry. Most things we do, we do because that's what we've always done. /hand-waving

jerf 17y ago
Yeah, I've noticed that with my kid, too. When he learned to sit up and crawl, he would be nearly asleep, presumably in that part of sleep where your brain is wandering but you're not quite asleep yet, then suddenly, bam, flip over and get on all fours to crawl, then start standing up on the bed. Once when I let him finish the task, he even visibly woke up, looked at me with some surprise, and then started crying again because he was tired, wanted to sleep, and clearly did not want to be standing up. Probably blamed me for it, too. No intentionality, it's just the "standing program" fired at an inopportune time. Another funny one (from an AI perspective) dates from when he was about 4 months old; we were sticking our tongues out at him and he was starting to try to copy us, and I swear, you could see his leg jerk, then his left arm, then his neck, until finally he got his tongue out, just like there was a little man in his head pushing buttons until he found the right one. On the parent's side: We have a dog and two cats, and our child just passed a year old. My wife was just telling me that she's caught herself being surprised a few times over the past few days, as my son does things like "puts the lid back on the container". She said she realized that up to this point she'd been subconsciously applying the "pet" template to our son, since that roughly matched his capabilities for the past few months (non-word vocalizations for needs, limited manipulation skills, understands only a few words, etc.), which she didn't even realize until suddenly he started to do a few things that didn't fit the template, like put a lid back on a container, or spontaneously use a keyring to mime locking the door (to the best of his ability). Kind of an interesting conceptual problem on the adult side.
- andreyf 17y ago
  She said she realized that up to this point she'd been subconsciously applying the "pet" template to our son, since that roughly matched his capabilities for the past few months This really surprised me, also. Especially so, because first "human" things my daughter did was to start offering to feed us when we fed her (~7 months). It would seem social reciprocation was her first social instinct - long before speech, feeling of ownership, etc.
  - jerf 17y ago
    My child is a boy. I already had little sympathy for the idea that we're born a blank slate and that society imposes gender templates, but what little sympathy I had for the idea is now gone. He's not hostile or asocial or anything, but he'd much rather hit his head on something, cry, and crawl right back over to try again in 5 minutes. Note that we know it's not a matter of being dumb, because there are other things like that he learns from. He's just... a boy. I think perhaps boys could fit into the "pet" template a bit longer, since girls are more humanly social, earlier, on average. (He's perfectly within normal parameters for his age and gender; he loves people, plenty of eye contact, etc., but girls are definitely different on average.)
    - JabavuAdams 17y ago
      Actually, I think your observations show the opposite: i.e. the strength of socialization. Suppose I didn't know your child's gender. The behaviour you described would not sound particularly male or female to me, given my biases. On the other hand, I infer that for you this appears to be typically "boyish" behaviour, and you use this as evidence of strong in-born gender traits. I.e. my daughter does exactly the same thing, but I didn't consider it "girlish". More "babies are duuuumb." One interesting thing about raising an infant is that everyone seems to project different things on to the child, and to have different interpretations of the same events. For instance, my wife and I focus on the fact that our daughter seems strong and smart. Others keep telling us how pretty she is. If she makes certain facial expressions, friends tell us it means one thing, while various relatives all have their own interpretations, that differ from our own interpretation. I don't think your observations confirm anything except your own biases. In case that sounds harsh, I think this is true of all of us. Note that I'm not making the strong claim that there are no gender differences. I just observe that there's much larger variation between individuals than between genders. Finally, I observe that parents treat girls and boys subtly differently even from before birth, and that this can't help but have an effect on their development.
andreyf 17y ago
If you're interested in machine intelligence, you need to spend some time with infants. Completely agreed - what blew my mind most was how little there is when children are first born. It was only a couple of months in that my daughter realized those things constantly around her were her arms and that she could control them. There was literally a moment when she stopped just flailing around, and stared intently at one hand as she moved it left and right in front of her.
- mistermann 17y ago
  One of the funniest things I noticed too, I loved watching when my daughter stared at her hand and slowly moved it around after finally discovering she controlled it. One of those stupid little things probably only a parent appreciates!

jerf 17y ago

Yeah, I've noticed that with my kid, too. When he learned to sit up and crawl, he would be nearly asleep, presumably in that part of sleep where your brain is wandering but you're not quite asleep yet, then suddenly, bam, flip over and get on all fours to crawl, then start standing up on the bed. Once when I let him finish the task, he even visibly woke up, looked at me with some surprise, and then started crying again because he was tired, wanted to sleep, and clearly did not want to be standing up. Probably blamed me for it, too. No intentionality, it's just the "standing program" fired at an inopportune time. Another funny one (from an AI perspective) dates from when he was about 4 months old; we were sticking our tongues out at him and he was starting to try to copy us, and I swear, you could see his leg jerk, then his left arm, then his neck, until finally he got his tongue out, just like there was a little man in his head pushing buttons until he found the right one. On the parent's side: We have a dog and two cats, and our child just passed a year old. My wife was just telling me that she's caught herself being surprised a few times over the past few days, as my son does things like "puts the lid back on the container". She said she realized that up to this point she'd been subconsciously applying the "pet" template to our son, since that roughly matched his capabilities for the past few months (non-word vocalizations for needs, limited manipulation skills, understands only a few words, etc.), which she didn't even realize until suddenly he started to do a few things that didn't fit the template, like put a lid back on a container, or spontaneously use a keyring to mime locking the door (to the best of his ability). Kind of an interesting conceptual problem on the adult side.

andreyf 17y ago
She said she realized that up to this point she'd been subconsciously applying the "pet" template to our son, since that roughly matched his capabilities for the past few months This really surprised me, also. Especially so, because first "human" things my daughter did was to start offering to feed us when we fed her (~7 months). It would seem social reciprocation was her first social instinct - long before speech, feeling of ownership, etc.
- jerf 17y ago
  My child is a boy. I already had little sympathy for the idea that we're born a blank slate and that society imposes gender templates, but what little sympathy I had for the idea is now gone. He's not hostile or asocial or anything, but he'd much rather hit his head on something, cry, and crawl right back over to try again in 5 minutes. Note that we know it's not a matter of being dumb, because there are other things like that he learns from. He's just... a boy. I think perhaps boys could fit into the "pet" template a bit longer, since girls are more humanly social, earlier, on average. (He's perfectly within normal parameters for his age and gender; he loves people, plenty of eye contact, etc., but girls are definitely different on average.)
  - JabavuAdams 17y ago
    Actually, I think your observations show the opposite: i.e. the strength of socialization. Suppose I didn't know your child's gender. The behaviour you described would not sound particularly male or female to me, given my biases. On the other hand, I infer that for you this appears to be typically "boyish" behaviour, and you use this as evidence of strong in-born gender traits. I.e. my daughter does exactly the same thing, but I didn't consider it "girlish". More "babies are duuuumb." One interesting thing about raising an infant is that everyone seems to project different things on to the child, and to have different interpretations of the same events. For instance, my wife and I focus on the fact that our daughter seems strong and smart. Others keep telling us how pretty she is. If she makes certain facial expressions, friends tell us it means one thing, while various relatives all have their own interpretations, that differ from our own interpretation. I don't think your observations confirm anything except your own biases. In case that sounds harsh, I think this is true of all of us. Note that I'm not making the strong claim that there are no gender differences. I just observe that there's much larger variation between individuals than between genders. Finally, I observe that parents treat girls and boys subtly differently even from before birth, and that this can't help but have an effect on their development.

andreyf 17y ago

If you're interested in machine intelligence, you need to spend some time with infants. Completely agreed - what blew my mind most was how little there is when children are first born. It was only a couple of months in that my daughter realized those things constantly around her were her arms and that she could control them. There was literally a moment when she stopped just flailing around, and stared intently at one hand as she moved it left and right in front of her.

mistermann 17y ago
One of the funniest things I noticed too, I loved watching when my daughter stared at her hand and slowly moved it around after finally discovering she controlled it. One of those stupid little things probably only a parent appreciates!