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This could absolutely destroy the US cloud-based services industry if this gets reaffirmed. It actually doesn't make any sense though, but it continues to chip

by steven2012 12y ago

This could absolutely destroy the US cloud-based services industry if this gets reaffirmed. It actually doesn't make any sense though, but it continues to chip away at global confidence in US-based companies.

mhandley 12y ago
The UK university where I work uses Microsoft's cloud service for email. I've always had concerns, but apparently we have a contract that states the data will only be held in certain jurisdictions (can't remember if it's just the UK, but I think so) so that we can conform with UK data protection laws. If Microsoft lose at appeal, I guess we'll be legally compelled to change email provider. Can't imagine we're the only ones either.
- waps 12y ago
  Note that UK data protection laws do NOT exclude the NSA from reading your email. They just restrict the data being sold to commercial third parties. I mean I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just that you don't have the protections you think you have. The UK intelligence services will actually help the NSA collect data from UK firms in the UK, as has been extensively reported. So keep in mind that if it's the US government, or any EU government that wants your data, it doesn't matter if it's stored in the US, UK, or anywhere in the EU or Australia or New Zealand. Add to that that UK citizens have less rights than US citizens when it comes to government data collection. A US citizen gets a deal : if they hand over data to the NSA/government themselves, that data cannot form the basis of a criminal conviction against them (this of course means the US government will try to hack you before asking you). So if you have encrypted kiddie prn on your machine and you decrypt it when the government asks you to do so, they may get to delete it, but that's it. Of course they can investigate you further, but if you are the one giving them the key, they can't do anything in court with the decrypted data. In the UK or anywhere in the EU you have no such right, and there are plenty of cases of people getting forced to hand over encryption keys only to have the decrypted data be used to convict them. So really, your data is safer with the NSA than with your own government (from the perspective of how damaging it can be to you personally at least).

mhandley 12y ago

The UK university where I work uses Microsoft's cloud service for email. I've always had concerns, but apparently we have a contract that states the data will only be held in certain jurisdictions (can't remember if it's just the UK, but I think so) so that we can conform with UK data protection laws. If Microsoft lose at appeal, I guess we'll be legally compelled to change email provider. Can't imagine we're the only ones either.

waps 12y ago
Note that UK data protection laws do NOT exclude the NSA from reading your email. They just restrict the data being sold to commercial third parties. I mean I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just that you don't have the protections you think you have. The UK intelligence services will actually help the NSA collect data from UK firms in the UK, as has been extensively reported. So keep in mind that if it's the US government, or any EU government that wants your data, it doesn't matter if it's stored in the US, UK, or anywhere in the EU or Australia or New Zealand. Add to that that UK citizens have less rights than US citizens when it comes to government data collection. A US citizen gets a deal : if they hand over data to the NSA/government themselves, that data cannot form the basis of a criminal conviction against them (this of course means the US government will try to hack you before asking you). So if you have encrypted kiddie prn on your machine and you decrypt it when the government asks you to do so, they may get to delete it, but that's it. Of course they can investigate you further, but if you are the one giving them the key, they can't do anything in court with the decrypted data. In the UK or anywhere in the EU you have no such right, and there are plenty of cases of people getting forced to hand over encryption keys only to have the decrypted data be used to convict them. So really, your data is safer with the NSA than with your own government (from the perspective of how damaging it can be to you personally at least).