4 ms·

Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still possible? Was it ever possible? The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/

by devin 17y ago

Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still possible? Was it ever possible? The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ does not look like the pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me wonder.

jgfoot 17y ago
It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen, for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ http://papersplease.org/gilmore/
- YuriNiyazov 17y ago
  I believe you mean john gilmore rather than jpb.
- jrockway 17y ago
  But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)
  - praptak 17y ago
    Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that works in court, not one with high moral ground.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      Yes, definitely. Incidentally, I have some recent US coins that say, "Live free or die," but it doesn't seem socially acceptable to have that attitude anymore. "Live in constant fear of the government and live" doesn't have the same ring...
dschoon 17y ago
I wondered the same thing, so I did a little extra footwork. Berkeley Professor David Wagner conducted basically the same research as this dude: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/ http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/ He came to similar findings regarding selectees: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html Neither of those pages are dated, though, so it's still possible things have changed in the past three years. Even so, it's worth noting that both these sites are reporting post-9/11 information. I'm curious and a bit adventurous, so perhaps I'll give it a shot. I bought the jetBlue pass, so I'll have plenty of opportunities. http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_All-You-Can-JetPass http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_...
- chrisbolt 17y ago
  According to the HTTP headers, noid.html was last modified on Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:54:16 GMT
rdouble 17y ago
I lost all of my identification one day before a series of domestic flights in the United States in Nov 2008. I was flying SFO <-> MSP and SFO <-> TUS. If you are flying domestic between MSP and SFO during the holidays I highly recommend not bringing your ID. TSA simply put some marks on my boarding passes and make me go through special screening. It was better than the usual customer experience during the holiday flight season because the "terrorist aisle" was much shorter than the normal path through security. I wouldn't recommend it in PHX or TUS. The TSA agents there seemed to be people who really wanted to be Minutemen Militia border guards but weren't smart enough to get in.
- bounce 17y ago
  I did something similar recently on a 5 city trip from SFO and I would not recommend it. Depending on the airport you could be in for some MAJOR hassle. I had an expired ID and I brought in mail from my current address along with credit cards. A couple of the airports it took a 15min longer than the regular line (they call over supervisor now), and a few of the airports DHS called up to 5 friends with a long list of questions to verify who I was. Who wants DHS calling their friends and associates, I sure don't. I flew with 0 ID a couple years ago and it was like having a zip pass to get through the line. Times have changed.
dmor 17y ago
I traveled domestically without I.D. just two weeks ago. They asked me to show anything I had with my name on it, such as credit cards, mail, etc. and put me through the more rigorous security check. It wasn't bad at all.
weisthefunk 17y ago
"...makes me wonder." makes you wonder if the author sounds intelligent, and official explanations which require new physics to be plausible sound stupid, then maybe, just maybe the emporer really does have no clothes?

by devin 17y ago

jgfoot 17y ago

It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen, for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ http://papersplease.org/gilmore/

YuriNiyazov 17y ago
I believe you mean john gilmore rather than jpb.
jrockway 17y ago
But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)
- praptak 17y ago
  Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that works in court, not one with high moral ground.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Yes, definitely. Incidentally, I have some recent US coins that say, "Live free or die," but it doesn't seem socially acceptable to have that attitude anymore. "Live in constant fear of the government and live" doesn't have the same ring...

dschoon 17y ago

I wondered the same thing, so I did a little extra footwork. Berkeley Professor David Wagner conducted basically the same research as this dude: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/ http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/ He came to similar findings regarding selectees: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html Neither of those pages are dated, though, so it's still possible things have changed in the past three years. Even so, it's worth noting that both these sites are reporting post-9/11 information. I'm curious and a bit adventurous, so perhaps I'll give it a shot. I bought the jetBlue pass, so I'll have plenty of opportunities. http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_All-You-Can-JetPass http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_...

chrisbolt 17y ago
According to the HTTP headers, noid.html was last modified on Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:54:16 GMT

rdouble 17y ago

I lost all of my identification one day before a series of domestic flights in the United States in Nov 2008. I was flying SFO <-> MSP and SFO <-> TUS. If you are flying domestic between MSP and SFO during the holidays I highly recommend not bringing your ID. TSA simply put some marks on my boarding passes and make me go through special screening. It was better than the usual customer experience during the holiday flight season because the "terrorist aisle" was much shorter than the normal path through security. I wouldn't recommend it in PHX or TUS. The TSA agents there seemed to be people who really wanted to be Minutemen Militia border guards but weren't smart enough to get in.

bounce 17y ago
I did something similar recently on a 5 city trip from SFO and I would not recommend it. Depending on the airport you could be in for some MAJOR hassle. I had an expired ID and I brought in mail from my current address along with credit cards. A couple of the airports it took a 15min longer than the regular line (they call over supervisor now), and a few of the airports DHS called up to 5 friends with a long list of questions to verify who I was. Who wants DHS calling their friends and associates, I sure don't. I flew with 0 ID a couple years ago and it was like having a zip pass to get through the line. Times have changed.

dmor 17y ago

I traveled domestically without I.D. just two weeks ago. They asked me to show anything I had with my name on it, such as credit cards, mail, etc. and put me through the more rigorous security check. It wasn't bad at all.

weisthefunk 17y ago

"...makes me wonder." makes you wonder if the author sounds intelligent, and official explanations which require new physics to be plausible sound stupid, then maybe, just maybe the emporer really does have no clothes?