9 ms·

How To Fly Without ID

100 points by jmonegro 17y ago

jrockway 17y ago
Something I want to try; get on the "no fly" list, legally change my name to something completely different (in a very small town, of course), legally get updated ID, and see how long it takes before I am on the "no fly" again. (My guess is never.) Incidentally, my credit report thinks my name is "Johnathan Rockway", which is a name I've never used on any credit card, nor one that appears on any ID I have ever possessed. Accurate!
- devin 17y ago
  Heh -- Well, it seems to have gotten your first initial and last name right at the very least. Maybe you go by John? Jonathon? Either way, I enjoyed your idea and your tone. "Accurate!" he says...
  - jmonegro 17y ago
    Funny how you can somehow tell the tone the author is using just by reading his words.
    - calcnerd256 17y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(literature) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(literature)
- mdasen 17y ago
  On the last part, I'd caution you to look into that. I had a name that wasn't mine on my credit report and soon other things started appearing on my report that weren't my accounts. A lot of companies that report to the credit agencies just report the last four of your SSN and name. I started getting calls for someone that wasn't me from collections agencies.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Well, it is just one letter added to my real name. So probably someone fucking up data entry, not someone misusing my identity.
- jhancock 17y ago
  I'd be interested to know what happens to your credit report if you change your SSN. There are a few loopholes that allow some people to petition for a new SSN. Any idea if you become a new man?
yread 17y ago
Very interesting article. I wonder how does it work in the EU. Have to get some legal friend to have a look at it! Perhaps I could have exchanged air tickets with people couple of times already...
- salvadors 17y ago
  Flying within a country is different from crossing international borders. Even within Schengen many (most?) countries still require visitors to be holding a valid travel document (passport or ID card). Random spot-checks are often carried out close to borders (although by local police, rather than immigration or border guards). I'd certainly be interested in discovering whether airlines are required to confirm that passengers have these. Many airlines now also require 'official' ID for flights even within a country, but AIUI that's purely airline policy rather than a legal requirement.
  - jvdh 17y ago
    I've actually been checked in Holland by customs when coming home from a Schengen country. He asked me to show an ID, I asked "why?", and he just responded "Because I say so". I was a bit too flabbergasted and not prepared for that answer and just showed him. He then proceeded to someone else who was even requested to come to the counter and let his bags get checked. I'm curious whether I was actually required to do so.
    - miracle 17y ago
      Yeah, play hard ball and you hopefully will go to jail. What's the problem of showing your id?
      - jvdh 17y ago
        The problem is that in the Netherlands there now is a law requiring you to show an ID if the cops ask for it. However, this was allowed with the provision that the cops had a sensible reason for doing so, i.e. you broke the law, or you were doing something suspicious. I see no reason why it is any of the cops business to know who I am when I'm just walking down the street. Same situation applies at the border, there is a seperate section for Schengen countries in the Amsterdam airport and you normally get in and out without showing an ID. I see no reason why it suddenly is any business to the customs officer to see who I am.
devin 17y ago
Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still possible? Was it ever possible? The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ does not look like the pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me wonder.
- jgfoot 17y ago
  It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen, for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ http://papersplease.org/gilmore/
  - YuriNiyazov 17y ago
    I believe you mean john gilmore rather than jpb.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)
    - praptak 17y ago
      Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that works in court, not one with high moral ground.
edw519 17y ago
I fly often and can't imagine going through any of this just to prove a point. I always print my boarding pass at home, never check bags, go directly to security, and use my frequent flyer card to go through the express line. I show my driver's license for inspection, but no data from it is ever recorded. IMO, a small price to pay to move quickly through the airport.
- kingandcountry 17y ago
  I can't imagine going through this whole revolution just to start my own country. All I have to do is give a toast to King George and pay a tax on tea, a small price to pay to stay part of Britain.
  - ramchip 17y ago
    Canada did get out of it without a revolution. I get your point, though.
jvdh 17y ago
The last of the regulations seems to imply that it is possible to fly internationally without an ID. I have no idea what you would accomplish by boarding an internation airplane without an ID, because you will get sent back once you get there. There is no way the other country will accept you without a passport.
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  I'm sure there is some procedure for handling citizens who have lost their passports.
  - arjunnarayan 17y ago
    Yes, but it involves contacting your nearest consulate/embassy before boarding the plane. They normally verify some stuff internally (which is why it helps immensely to have photocopies that speed up the process as that contains the relevant numbers/barcodes that allow them to look you up quickly) and then they give you an "emergency travel document" or a new passport, depending on the situation. The ETD lets you travel back to your home country and then handle things from there.
    - miracle 17y ago
      If you have lost your passport, you have to go to a police station and make a claim. You can only board the plane with that claim (and there is normaly a police station on every major airport) And PS: I hope that they wouldn't let in the ignorant author of the article in without a valid passport.
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
According to this article from Wired last year, TSA changed the rules so that now you can only fly without an ID if you claim that you lost it. So essentially they're giving up any increased security advantage (real or imagined) that comes from a mandatory ID requirement, for the purpose of sending the message that challenging authority will not be allowed. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/
mildavw 17y ago
Hmm. The article is not coming up for me at the moment. But that won't stop me from commenting! I accidentally traveled without ID last year. My drivers license is the only picture ID I carry. I'd given it over to test drive a baby seat at a store, and forgot to get it back. Left for vacation the next day. My stops were Portland, San Jose, and Austin. At all three airports I explained my situation, showed them my YMCA card (or library or credit card or something) and they marked my boarding pass for special security. The processes were not draconian, just a pat down, and actually faster than the regular security line. I skipped the line and went to some designated place on the side, zipped through the pat down, and then had to wait for my properly ID'd wife every time. YMMV, but based on my experience, I highly recommend traveling without an ID!
- zackattack 17y ago
  Speaking of highly recommending traveling without an ID, on my way back from school last year, I got really stoned in my friend's car on the way to the airport. Me being stoned, I left my wallet in the car, and ended up at the airport with no ID. I also got to go through the much-faster special screening, but I had to step into a chamber where they puffed you with air. Not for weed scent, for bombs, though I was mildly concerned at the time. All in all a fun experience. Next time there's a big line at security, I'm going to tell them that I forgot my id. w00t
  - torpor 17y ago
    Weed often sets off the bomb sensors, since the high concentration of fertilizers produce similar signatures ..
    - AndrewO 17y ago
      Dude, you totally harshed the mellow in here. Now he's gonna be all paranoid...
    - zackattack 17y ago
      I don't believe you. Prove it.
californiaguy 17y ago
If you're in the US just tell them your wallet was stolen. They'll put you in another line and often times it'll actually be faster than the main security line. I've done this multiple times, the first time after I actually did lose my wallet in Vegas and had to fly back home. Apparently it happens all the time.
zepolen 17y ago
"...could not bar an American citizen from boarding a plane, even if a passenger refused to produce any identification at all!" How exactly can you know if someone is an American citizen if they don't show any government approved ID saying so?
- bjoernw 17y ago
  I'm a German citizen but travel with my Maryland-issued driver's license. There is no info about citizenship on it. Therefore I would say that even non-citizens can claim this right. How would you prove you are a citizen? Your U.S. passport would be the only way.
- jrockway 17y ago
  People like to use the word "citizen" for some reason, even when it is not accurate. The protections of the US Constitution apply to all "people", not all "citizens". The word "citizen" mostly occurs when referring to voting and running for office (both which do require citizenship). Everyone gets a jury trial, free speech, etc.
  - ionfish 17y ago
    People like to use the word "citizen" because it's a way of broadcasting their tribal identity. These little war dances are generally done by people with citizenship of high-status nations; one doesn't tend to see people going around bragging about how they are Togolese citizens, for example. However, it's certainly not a behaviour limited to Americans: I've seen plenty of Brits and Canadians do it too.
- GrandMasterBirt 17y ago
  Exactly. That is why they can't really bar anyone. Thus the lawsuits. Its like in Argentina, they have some toll roads but in their constitution they claim that roads may not be charged for. So people pass through the tolls claiming "I am declaring that I am refusing to pay the toll in accordance to our constitution." And vuala, no toll :) We must use our legal rights to fight back from the government grabbing power.
robk 17y ago
The rules in the US seem to have changed this summer to require ID in almost every case. See Flyertalk's security forum here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/984568-oh-oh-rules-seem-have-changed-pv.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/984568... Very disappointing and arguably unconstitutional.
weisthefunk 17y ago
Thank you for returning my faith in civil rights and the US Constitution. The home of the free and the land of the brave is at grave risk of becoming extinct as long as good men and women sit and watch their basic freedoms eroded continuously in the name of fighting illusionary 'terrorists'
- gluejar 17y ago
  the article is a bit stale. This page is up to date: http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/ http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/
adatta02 17y ago
Extremely interesting. Last March I actually tried to switch the name on an American Airlines ticket and the agent on the phone informed that it was impossible to switch the name on a ticket. She went so far as to claim the computer system didn't even support name changes. I called her out on that and then she told me that federal law prohibits name changes on tickets. Assuming this article is valid - how would an airline even know that the name on the ticket doesn't match if I refuse to produce ID? (it was a domestic flight so no passport)
wkdown 17y ago
The downside of this was not pointed out unless one read the whole snippet: EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED SCREENER Yeah, you got on the plane without showing ID. But if they really wanted to, they could determine who you are in other ways (DNA from hair on clothing, etc)

100 points by jmonegro 17y ago

Something I want to try; get on the "no fly" list, legally change my name to something completely different (in a very small town, of course), legally get updated ID, and see how long it takes before I am on the "no fly" again. (My guess is never.) Incidentally, my credit report thinks my name is "Johnathan Rockway", which is a name I've never used on any credit card, nor one that appears on any ID I have ever possessed. Accurate!

devin 17y ago
Heh -- Well, it seems to have gotten your first initial and last name right at the very least. Maybe you go by John? Jonathon? Either way, I enjoyed your idea and your tone. "Accurate!" he says...
- jmonegro 17y ago
  Funny how you can somehow tell the tone the author is using just by reading his words.
  - calcnerd256 17y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(literature) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(literature)
mdasen 17y ago
On the last part, I'd caution you to look into that. I had a name that wasn't mine on my credit report and soon other things started appearing on my report that weren't my accounts. A lot of companies that report to the credit agencies just report the last four of your SSN and name. I started getting calls for someone that wasn't me from collections agencies.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Well, it is just one letter added to my real name. So probably someone fucking up data entry, not someone misusing my identity.
jhancock 17y ago
I'd be interested to know what happens to your credit report if you change your SSN. There are a few loopholes that allow some people to petition for a new SSN. Any idea if you become a new man?

yread 17y ago

Very interesting article. I wonder how does it work in the EU. Have to get some legal friend to have a look at it! Perhaps I could have exchanged air tickets with people couple of times already...

salvadors 17y ago
Flying within a country is different from crossing international borders. Even within Schengen many (most?) countries still require visitors to be holding a valid travel document (passport or ID card). Random spot-checks are often carried out close to borders (although by local police, rather than immigration or border guards). I'd certainly be interested in discovering whether airlines are required to confirm that passengers have these. Many airlines now also require 'official' ID for flights even within a country, but AIUI that's purely airline policy rather than a legal requirement.
- jvdh 17y ago
  I've actually been checked in Holland by customs when coming home from a Schengen country. He asked me to show an ID, I asked "why?", and he just responded "Because I say so". I was a bit too flabbergasted and not prepared for that answer and just showed him. He then proceeded to someone else who was even requested to come to the counter and let his bags get checked. I'm curious whether I was actually required to do so.
  - miracle 17y ago
    Yeah, play hard ball and you hopefully will go to jail. What's the problem of showing your id?
    - jvdh 17y ago
      The problem is that in the Netherlands there now is a law requiring you to show an ID if the cops ask for it. However, this was allowed with the provision that the cops had a sensible reason for doing so, i.e. you broke the law, or you were doing something suspicious. I see no reason why it is any of the cops business to know who I am when I'm just walking down the street. Same situation applies at the border, there is a seperate section for Schengen countries in the Amsterdam airport and you normally get in and out without showing an ID. I see no reason why it suddenly is any business to the customs officer to see who I am.

devin 17y ago

Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still possible? Was it ever possible? The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ does not look like the pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me wonder.

jgfoot 17y ago
It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen, for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ http://papersplease.org/gilmore/
- YuriNiyazov 17y ago
  I believe you mean john gilmore rather than jpb.
- jrockway 17y ago
  But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice. Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)
  - praptak 17y ago
    Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that works in court, not one with high moral ground.

edw519 17y ago

I fly often and can't imagine going through any of this just to prove a point. I always print my boarding pass at home, never check bags, go directly to security, and use my frequent flyer card to go through the express line. I show my driver's license for inspection, but no data from it is ever recorded. IMO, a small price to pay to move quickly through the airport.

kingandcountry 17y ago
I can't imagine going through this whole revolution just to start my own country. All I have to do is give a toast to King George and pay a tax on tea, a small price to pay to stay part of Britain.
- ramchip 17y ago
  Canada did get out of it without a revolution. I get your point, though.

jvdh 17y ago

The last of the regulations seems to imply that it is possible to fly internationally without an ID. I have no idea what you would accomplish by boarding an internation airplane without an ID, because you will get sent back once you get there. There is no way the other country will accept you without a passport.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago
I'm sure there is some procedure for handling citizens who have lost their passports.
- arjunnarayan 17y ago
  Yes, but it involves contacting your nearest consulate/embassy before boarding the plane. They normally verify some stuff internally (which is why it helps immensely to have photocopies that speed up the process as that contains the relevant numbers/barcodes that allow them to look you up quickly) and then they give you an "emergency travel document" or a new passport, depending on the situation. The ETD lets you travel back to your home country and then handle things from there.
  - miracle 17y ago
    If you have lost your passport, you have to go to a police station and make a claim. You can only board the plane with that claim (and there is normaly a police station on every major airport) And PS: I hope that they wouldn't let in the ignorant author of the article in without a valid passport.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago

According to this article from Wired last year, TSA changed the rules so that now you can only fly without an ID if you claim that you lost it. So essentially they're giving up any increased security advantage (real or imagined) that comes from a mandatory ID requirement, for the purpose of sending the message that challenging authority will not be allowed. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/

mildavw 17y ago

Hmm. The article is not coming up for me at the moment. But that won't stop me from commenting! I accidentally traveled without ID last year. My drivers license is the only picture ID I carry. I'd given it over to test drive a baby seat at a store, and forgot to get it back. Left for vacation the next day. My stops were Portland, San Jose, and Austin. At all three airports I explained my situation, showed them my YMCA card (or library or credit card or something) and they marked my boarding pass for special security. The processes were not draconian, just a pat down, and actually faster than the regular security line. I skipped the line and went to some designated place on the side, zipped through the pat down, and then had to wait for my properly ID'd wife every time. YMMV, but based on my experience, I highly recommend traveling without an ID!

zackattack 17y ago
Speaking of highly recommending traveling without an ID, on my way back from school last year, I got really stoned in my friend's car on the way to the airport. Me being stoned, I left my wallet in the car, and ended up at the airport with no ID. I also got to go through the much-faster special screening, but I had to step into a chamber where they puffed you with air. Not for weed scent, for bombs, though I was mildly concerned at the time. All in all a fun experience. Next time there's a big line at security, I'm going to tell them that I forgot my id. w00t
- torpor 17y ago
  Weed often sets off the bomb sensors, since the high concentration of fertilizers produce similar signatures ..
  - AndrewO 17y ago
    Dude, you totally harshed the mellow in here. Now he's gonna be all paranoid...
  - zackattack 17y ago
    I don't believe you. Prove it.

californiaguy 17y ago

If you're in the US just tell them your wallet was stolen. They'll put you in another line and often times it'll actually be faster than the main security line. I've done this multiple times, the first time after I actually did lose my wallet in Vegas and had to fly back home. Apparently it happens all the time.

zepolen 17y ago

"...could not bar an American citizen from boarding a plane, even if a passenger refused to produce any identification at all!" How exactly can you know if someone is an American citizen if they don't show any government approved ID saying so?

bjoernw 17y ago
I'm a German citizen but travel with my Maryland-issued driver's license. There is no info about citizenship on it. Therefore I would say that even non-citizens can claim this right. How would you prove you are a citizen? Your U.S. passport would be the only way.
jrockway 17y ago
People like to use the word "citizen" for some reason, even when it is not accurate. The protections of the US Constitution apply to all "people", not all "citizens". The word "citizen" mostly occurs when referring to voting and running for office (both which do require citizenship). Everyone gets a jury trial, free speech, etc.
- ionfish 17y ago
  People like to use the word "citizen" because it's a way of broadcasting their tribal identity. These little war dances are generally done by people with citizenship of high-status nations; one doesn't tend to see people going around bragging about how they are Togolese citizens, for example. However, it's certainly not a behaviour limited to Americans: I've seen plenty of Brits and Canadians do it too.
GrandMasterBirt 17y ago
Exactly. That is why they can't really bar anyone. Thus the lawsuits. Its like in Argentina, they have some toll roads but in their constitution they claim that roads may not be charged for. So people pass through the tolls claiming "I am declaring that I am refusing to pay the toll in accordance to our constitution." And vuala, no toll :) We must use our legal rights to fight back from the government grabbing power.

robk 17y ago

The rules in the US seem to have changed this summer to require ID in almost every case. See Flyertalk's security forum here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/984568-oh-oh-rules-seem-have-changed-pv.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/984568... Very disappointing and arguably unconstitutional.

weisthefunk 17y ago

Thank you for returning my faith in civil rights and the US Constitution. The home of the free and the land of the brave is at grave risk of becoming extinct as long as good men and women sit and watch their basic freedoms eroded continuously in the name of fighting illusionary 'terrorists'

gluejar 17y ago
the article is a bit stale. This page is up to date: http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/ http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/

adatta02 17y ago

Extremely interesting. Last March I actually tried to switch the name on an American Airlines ticket and the agent on the phone informed that it was impossible to switch the name on a ticket. She went so far as to claim the computer system didn't even support name changes. I called her out on that and then she told me that federal law prohibits name changes on tickets. Assuming this article is valid - how would an airline even know that the name on the ticket doesn't match if I refuse to produce ID? (it was a domestic flight so no passport)

wkdown 17y ago

The downside of this was not pointed out unless one read the whole snippet: EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED SCREENER Yeah, you got on the plane without showing ID. But if they really wanted to, they could determine who you are in other ways (DNA from hair on clothing, etc)