6 ms·

Ask HN: Advice for someone who can't get out of a hole

15 points by shlimazl 12y ago

Hi HN! I wish to remain at least partly anonymous but I WILL personally respond via email if anyone wishes to post theirs. For context of the situation: 2 years ago I graduated with a very expensive degree in Advertising & PR from a reputable California school. It set back my parents retirement a great amount, even with scholarships. My father said it's "all good" but it still weighs heavily on me. During that time, I took on many school projects, started a freelance web practice with a friend, and had a couple internships - one with a major advertising agency. From my web business and internships, I have some incredibly good references. Now, two years post graduation, I am very much unemployed (Rejection email in comments). I have submitted an insane amount of job applications in several fields [but I really want to be with a young company that I can take responsibility] and have sent even more emails and physical mail. I feel completely stuck & out of luck. It seems that what can go wrong; has, even outside the job hunt. I'm pretty desperate to get a job and move because the home living situation isn't great and I'm sick of spending my days watching TED & Academic Earth lectures. I can't professionally code, but I can do & enjoy just about anything else. I think I'm at my best when under pressure and I am able to learn and comprehend new things fairly quickly. I just want to work. What are your thoughts HN? What might have I done to get myself in this hole? How should I get myself out of it? Thanks!

shlimazl 12y ago
Posting this in comments because of thr 2k word limit: I've revised my CV often and have been on several job interviews but the responses I've always gotten are like this real example: "At this time, we've decided to move forward with other candidates. While your knowledge and recommendations are excellent, this in fact an entry level position and we prefer to hire people with your skillsets for mid-level positions. Unfortunately, however, we do not have anything that matches your experience at this time. We wish you the best in your job search."
- cpncrunch 12y ago
  Although you might want to work for a small, young company, that might be making it difficult to find a job. It tends to be the large, rich companies like google that hire people with Stanford (and similar) expensive educations. A small company might just not be able to afford you (or at least, they might think that). Working at a large company would also be good experience. You don't need to stay there forever - just a year or two, and then you could move on to something else. Also, if you can post your CV somewhere, we can maybe give you some honest feedback. There might be some obvious glaring problem that you just can't see yourself.
  - junto 12y ago
    I agree with this. Having run a small web design company I received lots of applications of people like yourself. The honest reality is that you need to bring experience into companies of this size. They simply can't afford to have anybody on the books that aren't providing for themselves. Most of them are just about keeping their heads above water. @cpncrunch's advice is golden. Go work at a big company. Get some experience. Then you'll have something more to offer these small companies.
sharemywin 12y ago
dumb your resume down, stop talking about management positions when your interviewing for entry level. Basically your telling the hiring manager your going to be gunning for his/her job or moving on as soon as you can. you just have to tell them what ever the job is you've always want to do this job/ work for this company etc.
ytNumbers 12y ago
> no professional experience... but I believe the most fitting role for me is a leadership one. Don't ever say this. Until you've got a few years of working under your belt, don't even THINK it! It can sound like you want to start out as the boss, and you're more of an "idea" guy. Scary words from someone looking for their first real job. Without seeing your resume, I can't even guess what is holding you back from that first job. I'm hoping that you've held some sort of job for the past two years (even if it's not in your field of expertise). As I'm sure you know, two years of unemployment will tend to eliminate you from consideration for maybe 90% of job openings. If I had a background in Advertising & PR, I would be happy to help you out in any way I can. I guess all I can do is wish you good luck, and upvote your posting in the hopes that you'll make it to the front page of HN where some PR workers will see it and be able to provide some helpful advice.
- shlimazl 12y ago
  In my first interview shortly after college, I said something about looking forward to a leadership role. A close friend mentioned the exact same thing you and the individual below did... It made perfect sense and I've thoroughly avoided saying that since. I was certainly a lot more outwardly ambitious for a few months post graduation, but much less so now. And thank you for the upvote! Help is help anyway I look at.
arisAlexis 12y ago
You could think about moving to another country with more jobs or less skilled employees. It's a globalized economy we are living in, take the opportunity and go where antagonism is low.
taprun 12y ago
I've been speaking to a whole lot of folks trying to start tech businesses lately. Tech guys all say the same thing - they can build products, but have no idea how to get customers. You are in a perfect position. Not only do you have skills they don't have, but you also have time (which they also probably don't have). Why don't you just head over to a coworking space or two and offer to give a free presentation on how to market new software products. Talk about basic advertising 101 - creating customer profiles, segmenting markets, etc. Then close by saying that you run a software marketing business and can coach for a fee or sell for a commission (perhaps ~33%). I'd email you with more details, but I don't see your info in your profile. Feel free to email me, or use the contact form on the website in my profile.
bennyg 12y ago
I work as a software engineer at a mid-size ad agency in Birmingham, AL. Send me your resume (brgordon at ua.edu) and I'll see what I can do in the organization. I also graduated with an advertising degree, but started coding my senior year of college. I just started with this company so I can't make any promises but I'll see what I can do. You have an online portfolio too, correct?
anishkothari 12y ago
0. Fill out your HN profile. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and your situation. 1. Go to your university's career center and get help. Find out what career fairs you can attend at your own university or other universities. Talk to everyone there, companies and fellow job hunters. Exchange information and stories. Don't just send job applications through the university job board. 2. Start socializing. Join a coworking space and talk to people, find out what they're working on and help them for free (for a short time) and prove your worth. Tell anyone who is willing to listen that you're looking for work. Sites like Reddit and Twitter are great resources - go to meetups (any kind, even social ones!) or join Toastmasters to meet other people. Make new contacts and help them; they will help you back. 3. If you're really looking for any kind of work, then find a job in retail or part-time in any field and look for work all the time. Or start a small business to keep yourself busy and motivated. It does not have to be a technology-related! Freelance on odesk or even Fiverr. It will keep you going until you find full-time work. Talk to customers and mention that you are looking for work! Remember that business always comes down to people. Lastly, don't feel guilty about your parents' investment in your education, they wanted to help you so that you could be successful. I know because I'm in a similar situation - my parents paid my tuition except for a loan. I graduated and couldn't find work - then I got sick; they repaid my loan and have supported me (and housed me) while my health improves. Good luck and remember to thank your parents when you are successful. Check out Charlie Hoehn's e-book [0], it has lots of good advice and things to try out. [0] http://charliehoehn.com/books/ http://charliehoehn.com/books/
pcx 12y ago
Why not try learning to code. Build a website (based on any small idea you have), learn the whole stack while you are on it, and focus on a specialty like frontend/backend. That shouldn't be very hard to do with all the resources these days and can help you get started. Once you have a solid professional background, you can choose to move away from coding to a more managerial role. It also helps that, comparatively, engineers respect managers who can code.
kjs3 12y ago
> I'm sick of spending my days watching TED & Academic Earth lectures. Then don't do that. Don't even mention it; nothing has the stink of "mom's basement" level failure than a sentence like that. TED talks and AE are for having something literate to talk about when you have a job, not what's going to get you a job. Spend that time networking. Get out to every professional networking event in your field and make some personal, one-on-one relationships. Volunteer to present at networking events and use former TED time to put together polished and professional presentations; most groups are desperate for someone new to talk about something different. Try to get on an panel where you feel you can hold your own. People will remember you. If you've really got extra time on your hands, consider getting involved in a group activity oriented charity. Don't know how it is where you are, but I have never done a local Junior Achievement or Habitat for Humanity event where I didn't meet a couple of new, good-to-know executives (including the CEO of my current company). > I really want to be with a young company that I can take responsibility How's that working out for you? Get a job, any job. Be good at it, even if it's not what you want. Build a reputation as someone a company wants to hire no matter what the field. A buddy of mine spent his year in the "can't get a job for love or money" wilderness doing shift work on the floor at Home Depot. He got back in the saddle because he interviewed with a hiring manager who was also a home improvement nut. They hit it off over "how to plumb a new door", and he was back to coding. > this in fact an entry level position Tailor your resume to the job your applying for, not the one you want. If it's entry level, don't try to dog pile on your accomplishments. Strip it down so that the "what you've done" matches "what they want" as closely as possible. This means leaving things out you may be very proud of. Prove you're suited for moving up after you get the job.

15 points by shlimazl 12y ago

shlimazl 12y ago

Posting this in comments because of thr 2k word limit: I've revised my CV often and have been on several job interviews but the responses I've always gotten are like this real example: "At this time, we've decided to move forward with other candidates. While your knowledge and recommendations are excellent, this in fact an entry level position and we prefer to hire people with your skillsets for mid-level positions. Unfortunately, however, we do not have anything that matches your experience at this time. We wish you the best in your job search."

cpncrunch 12y ago
Although you might want to work for a small, young company, that might be making it difficult to find a job. It tends to be the large, rich companies like google that hire people with Stanford (and similar) expensive educations. A small company might just not be able to afford you (or at least, they might think that). Working at a large company would also be good experience. You don't need to stay there forever - just a year or two, and then you could move on to something else. Also, if you can post your CV somewhere, we can maybe give you some honest feedback. There might be some obvious glaring problem that you just can't see yourself.
- junto 12y ago
  I agree with this. Having run a small web design company I received lots of applications of people like yourself. The honest reality is that you need to bring experience into companies of this size. They simply can't afford to have anybody on the books that aren't providing for themselves. Most of them are just about keeping their heads above water. @cpncrunch's advice is golden. Go work at a big company. Get some experience. Then you'll have something more to offer these small companies.

sharemywin 12y ago

dumb your resume down, stop talking about management positions when your interviewing for entry level. Basically your telling the hiring manager your going to be gunning for his/her job or moving on as soon as you can. you just have to tell them what ever the job is you've always want to do this job/ work for this company etc.

ytNumbers 12y ago

> no professional experience... but I believe the most fitting role for me is a leadership one. Don't ever say this. Until you've got a few years of working under your belt, don't even THINK it! It can sound like you want to start out as the boss, and you're more of an "idea" guy. Scary words from someone looking for their first real job. Without seeing your resume, I can't even guess what is holding you back from that first job. I'm hoping that you've held some sort of job for the past two years (even if it's not in your field of expertise). As I'm sure you know, two years of unemployment will tend to eliminate you from consideration for maybe 90% of job openings. If I had a background in Advertising & PR, I would be happy to help you out in any way I can. I guess all I can do is wish you good luck, and upvote your posting in the hopes that you'll make it to the front page of HN where some PR workers will see it and be able to provide some helpful advice.

shlimazl 12y ago
In my first interview shortly after college, I said something about looking forward to a leadership role. A close friend mentioned the exact same thing you and the individual below did... It made perfect sense and I've thoroughly avoided saying that since. I was certainly a lot more outwardly ambitious for a few months post graduation, but much less so now. And thank you for the upvote! Help is help anyway I look at.

arisAlexis 12y ago

You could think about moving to another country with more jobs or less skilled employees. It's a globalized economy we are living in, take the opportunity and go where antagonism is low.

taprun 12y ago

I've been speaking to a whole lot of folks trying to start tech businesses lately. Tech guys all say the same thing - they can build products, but have no idea how to get customers. You are in a perfect position. Not only do you have skills they don't have, but you also have time (which they also probably don't have). Why don't you just head over to a coworking space or two and offer to give a free presentation on how to market new software products. Talk about basic advertising 101 - creating customer profiles, segmenting markets, etc. Then close by saying that you run a software marketing business and can coach for a fee or sell for a commission (perhaps ~33%). I'd email you with more details, but I don't see your info in your profile. Feel free to email me, or use the contact form on the website in my profile.

bennyg 12y ago

I work as a software engineer at a mid-size ad agency in Birmingham, AL. Send me your resume (brgordon at ua.edu) and I'll see what I can do in the organization. I also graduated with an advertising degree, but started coding my senior year of college. I just started with this company so I can't make any promises but I'll see what I can do. You have an online portfolio too, correct?

anishkothari 12y ago

0. Fill out your HN profile. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and your situation. 1. Go to your university's career center and get help. Find out what career fairs you can attend at your own university or other universities. Talk to everyone there, companies and fellow job hunters. Exchange information and stories. Don't just send job applications through the university job board. 2. Start socializing. Join a coworking space and talk to people, find out what they're working on and help them for free (for a short time) and prove your worth. Tell anyone who is willing to listen that you're looking for work. Sites like Reddit and Twitter are great resources - go to meetups (any kind, even social ones!) or join Toastmasters to meet other people. Make new contacts and help them; they will help you back. 3. If you're really looking for any kind of work, then find a job in retail or part-time in any field and look for work all the time. Or start a small business to keep yourself busy and motivated. It does not have to be a technology-related! Freelance on odesk or even Fiverr. It will keep you going until you find full-time work. Talk to customers and mention that you are looking for work! Remember that business always comes down to people. Lastly, don't feel guilty about your parents' investment in your education, they wanted to help you so that you could be successful. I know because I'm in a similar situation - my parents paid my tuition except for a loan. I graduated and couldn't find work - then I got sick; they repaid my loan and have supported me (and housed me) while my health improves. Good luck and remember to thank your parents when you are successful. Check out Charlie Hoehn's e-book [0], it has lots of good advice and things to try out. [0] http://charliehoehn.com/books/ http://charliehoehn.com/books/

pcx 12y ago

Why not try learning to code. Build a website (based on any small idea you have), learn the whole stack while you are on it, and focus on a specialty like frontend/backend. That shouldn't be very hard to do with all the resources these days and can help you get started. Once you have a solid professional background, you can choose to move away from coding to a more managerial role. It also helps that, comparatively, engineers respect managers who can code.

kjs3 12y ago

> I'm sick of spending my days watching TED & Academic Earth lectures. Then don't do that. Don't even mention it; nothing has the stink of "mom's basement" level failure than a sentence like that. TED talks and AE are for having something literate to talk about when you have a job, not what's going to get you a job. Spend that time networking. Get out to every professional networking event in your field and make some personal, one-on-one relationships. Volunteer to present at networking events and use former TED time to put together polished and professional presentations; most groups are desperate for someone new to talk about something different. Try to get on an panel where you feel you can hold your own. People will remember you. If you've really got extra time on your hands, consider getting involved in a group activity oriented charity. Don't know how it is where you are, but I have never done a local Junior Achievement or Habitat for Humanity event where I didn't meet a couple of new, good-to-know executives (including the CEO of my current company). > I really want to be with a young company that I can take responsibility How's that working out for you? Get a job, any job. Be good at it, even if it's not what you want. Build a reputation as someone a company wants to hire no matter what the field. A buddy of mine spent his year in the "can't get a job for love or money" wilderness doing shift work on the floor at Home Depot. He got back in the saddle because he interviewed with a hiring manager who was also a home improvement nut. They hit it off over "how to plumb a new door", and he was back to coding. > this in fact an entry level position Tailor your resume to the job your applying for, not the one you want. If it's entry level, don't try to dog pile on your accomplishments. Strip it down so that the "what you've done" matches "what they want" as closely as possible. This means leaving things out you may be very proud of. Prove you're suited for moving up after you get the job.