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This is the main area where I suspect Google's greater reliance on clouds leads them to castrate their operating systems. Last time I checked Chrome OS still di

This is the main area where I suspect Google's greater reliance on clouds leads them to castrate their operating systems. Last time I checked Chrome OS still didn't even support Bonjour mDNS. (Still the case, and it's related to this first mentioned in 2009: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=13573 https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=13573 ) The Android stuff alone is an inconsistent trainwreck (because not all hardware supports all options on a given version of the OS either) and it took them a long time to get there. Apple really have been leading the sane local peer-to-peer world ever since Bonjour first appeared, and the new developments have just extended their lead. It will be interesting to see just how this difference affects the nature of their respective wearables.

drivebyubnt 13y ago
FWIW Java based mDNS libraries works fine on stock Android. I believe mDNS is the standards body name for the protocol that Bonjour uses.
- dottrap 13y ago
  Zeroconf (Zero Configuration Networking) is the standards body name. mDNS is one of 3 components that Zeroconf uses, the other two being local link addressing and DNS service discovery. jMDNS works fine on Android but it is a 3rd party dependency you have to add and it is slow to start up. Android 4.1 started shipping their own native Zeroconf implementation (Network Service Discovery) which kind of works, but is buggy as hell.
- fidotron 13y ago
  Yeah, kind of. Now that they've rolled some of it into the OS things are better, but in the bad days before 4.0 you'd get devices hard wired to discard any broadcast or multicast packets while the screen was off and so on. Manufacturers had a distinct tendency to mess with anything not explicitly used in the OS. Google aren't helped when people like Samsung decide to redefine the bump to file transfer to mean NFC to initiate WiFi Direct, not what everyone else had deployed which was Bluetooth, and without the fallback position of making that work. That's the curious thing with Android, they did in many ways engage in the wider world hoping for a bit more wider co-operation (at least within the OHA), but you'd be hard pressed to find an area of the OS anyone other than Google had a positive impact on, but there is plenty of the reverse going on.
  - bsder 13y ago
    > but in the bad days before 4.0 you'd get devices hard wired to discard any broadcast or multicast packets while the screen was off and so on. Shitty networking stacks abound all because everybody is trying to get an edge in battery life.
uuid_to_string 13y ago
Last time I checked iOS still lacks a TAP device. Castration indeed.
- uuid_to_string 13y ago
  I'm guessing the downvoters have no clue what TAP is or why it is relevant to peer-to-peer. Either that or they just think this is some critique of their beloved Apple. I'm referring to the TUN/TAP driver. All BSD's have it (/dev/tap). And to easily do encapsulation, which is very handy for VPNs and peer-to-peer, you need it. OSX has it. iOS does not. So, downvoters, why is TAP missing from iOS? Why is iOS crippled? Or "castrated" to use the parent's terminology. I've got peer-to-peer that relies on TAP. Not a problem with any BSD or Linux or even OSX. The exception is iOS. Why?
thrownaway2424 13y ago
My Android immediately becomes the remote control of my Sonos system whenever I approach my house, so it seems to me that Android's network service discovery is adequate for at least some purposes, whether it uses mDNS or not (I'm pretty sure Sonos uses multicast HTTP, FWIW.)
- rquirk 13y ago
  Android doesn't resolve names like machinename.local though. At least not for me - I hit this problem on a Nexus 7 just this weekend. I ended up putting the IP address in. Perhaps it is application specific, though name resolution seems like something that'd be baked in at a lower level than that. Anyway I tried in Firefox where it attempted to resolve www.machinename.local, and also a VNC application which just timed out.
  - thrownaway2424 13y ago
    I imagine that allowing multicast resolution system-wide is fraught with security problems, and most Android phones are whored out to random wifi networks all over the world.
hahainternet 13y ago
> Apple really have been leading the sane local peer-to-peer world ever since Bonjour first appeared, and the new developments have just extended their lead. It's not hard to be a 'leader' when there's only 5 or so products to communicate with. Clearly they don't support anything other than this, and so calling it a 'lead' is hilarious when you have to have everyone you might want to communicate with buy the same product as you. What rot.

drivebyubnt 13y ago

FWIW Java based mDNS libraries works fine on stock Android. I believe mDNS is the standards body name for the protocol that Bonjour uses.

dottrap 13y ago
Zeroconf (Zero Configuration Networking) is the standards body name. mDNS is one of 3 components that Zeroconf uses, the other two being local link addressing and DNS service discovery. jMDNS works fine on Android but it is a 3rd party dependency you have to add and it is slow to start up. Android 4.1 started shipping their own native Zeroconf implementation (Network Service Discovery) which kind of works, but is buggy as hell.
fidotron 13y ago
Yeah, kind of. Now that they've rolled some of it into the OS things are better, but in the bad days before 4.0 you'd get devices hard wired to discard any broadcast or multicast packets while the screen was off and so on. Manufacturers had a distinct tendency to mess with anything not explicitly used in the OS. Google aren't helped when people like Samsung decide to redefine the bump to file transfer to mean NFC to initiate WiFi Direct, not what everyone else had deployed which was Bluetooth, and without the fallback position of making that work. That's the curious thing with Android, they did in many ways engage in the wider world hoping for a bit more wider co-operation (at least within the OHA), but you'd be hard pressed to find an area of the OS anyone other than Google had a positive impact on, but there is plenty of the reverse going on.
- bsder 13y ago
  > but in the bad days before 4.0 you'd get devices hard wired to discard any broadcast or multicast packets while the screen was off and so on. Shitty networking stacks abound all because everybody is trying to get an edge in battery life.

uuid_to_string 13y ago

Last time I checked iOS still lacks a TAP device. Castration indeed.

uuid_to_string 13y ago
I'm guessing the downvoters have no clue what TAP is or why it is relevant to peer-to-peer. Either that or they just think this is some critique of their beloved Apple. I'm referring to the TUN/TAP driver. All BSD's have it (/dev/tap). And to easily do encapsulation, which is very handy for VPNs and peer-to-peer, you need it. OSX has it. iOS does not. So, downvoters, why is TAP missing from iOS? Why is iOS crippled? Or "castrated" to use the parent's terminology. I've got peer-to-peer that relies on TAP. Not a problem with any BSD or Linux or even OSX. The exception is iOS. Why?

thrownaway2424 13y ago

My Android immediately becomes the remote control of my Sonos system whenever I approach my house, so it seems to me that Android's network service discovery is adequate for at least some purposes, whether it uses mDNS or not (I'm pretty sure Sonos uses multicast HTTP, FWIW.)

rquirk 13y ago
Android doesn't resolve names like machinename.local though. At least not for me - I hit this problem on a Nexus 7 just this weekend. I ended up putting the IP address in. Perhaps it is application specific, though name resolution seems like something that'd be baked in at a lower level than that. Anyway I tried in Firefox where it attempted to resolve www.machinename.local, and also a VNC application which just timed out.
- thrownaway2424 13y ago
  I imagine that allowing multicast resolution system-wide is fraught with security problems, and most Android phones are whored out to random wifi networks all over the world.

hahainternet 13y ago

> Apple really have been leading the sane local peer-to-peer world ever since Bonjour first appeared, and the new developments have just extended their lead. It's not hard to be a 'leader' when there's only 5 or so products to communicate with. Clearly they don't support anything other than this, and so calling it a 'lead' is hilarious when you have to have everyone you might want to communicate with buy the same product as you. What rot.