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SpaceX Sues Government to Break US Air Force’s National Security Launch Monopoly

30 points by kmfrk 13y ago

rayiner 13y ago
A lawsuit with an announcement at the National Press Club? This is a man who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. Every time I think I couldn't love Elon Musk more.
colechristensen 13y ago
Everybody wins when there's real competition in space.
samstave 13y ago
This will likely be un popular: but surely we praise SpaceX when they are trying to sue the government to get some of that sweet launch contract business; but we will say nothing whn they are launching satellites designed to either kill or spy on anyone by launching more tentacles of the octopus!
- Roritharr 13y ago
  If Musk continues to play his Tony Stark Cosplay he's going to insert some kind of backdoor into satellites SpaceX launches for the DOD.
- cvbncvbncgbc 13y ago
  Limiting launches is not the proper solution. If you want change, start with your local state representative.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    The ballot box is a placebo: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/princeton-scholar-demise-of-democracy-america-tpm-interview http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/princeton-scholar-demise-of-... If you want to change what government does, do everything you can get away with to change it. That's how the people who actually get their way do it.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  "launching satellites designed to either kill or spy on anyone by launching more tentacles of the octopus!" Satellite designed to kill? I think that's more a plot line to a movie. I don't think we've launched, or are planning to launch any killer satellites. And, with regards to "spy on anyone" - isn't it generally considered that transparency is a good thing for geopolitics? The physics of satellites/optics are such that you don't really need to worry about satellites personally spying on you beyond the resolution of a vehicle...
  - s_q_b 13y ago
    I don't agree with the OP's position, but we are launching satellites designed to kill, or at least testing their feasibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_Global_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_Global_Strike
    - cdash 13y ago
      That is not a satellite.
      - s_q_b 13y ago
        Space-based platforms are one vector being considered for prompt global strike. To quote the cited article: "Possible delivery systems include: ... a kinetic weapon launched from an orbiting space platform"
  - dingaling 13y ago
    > you don't really need to worry about satellites personally spying on you beyond the resolution of a vehicle.. "The IMPROVED CRYSTAL's sophisticated electronics provides sharper images than the KH-11, comparable in quality to the best of the film return satellites, with a resolution approaching ten centimeters. " http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/imint/kh-12.htm http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/imint/kh-12.htm
    - danielweber 13y ago
sbierwagen 13y ago
SpaceX is a private sector success story-- as long as you ignore that they get most of their revenue from government contracts. For a libertarian, he sure likes taking tax money.
- rmthompson 13y ago
  I'm not sure how you think a person's political leanings are even a little relevant to this discussion.
  - bertil 13y ago
    A CEO's leanings are relevant when they are clearly stated, and inspire a large part of his strategy -- to take a similarly controversial subject in the US, imagine the CEO of a gun-maker “against weapons”; that would come off as hypocritical. I don’t think that there is such a thing as being “against weapons” though. Some people don’t think that one should profit from the use of deadly force; in that case, not using a significant portion of that company’s profits to repair damages from misused weapons would be callous. In most cases, weapons manufacturer are direly aware of the issue with what they sell, and try to make better quality devices to prevent them. Namely, a policeman friend told me that Glocks (could be another brand, I know very little about firearms) were appreciated by her colleagues who do a lot of pursuits because they don’t tend to accidentally fire when they drop from their holster, a rare but potentially tragic event. Glock makes money from that fear, hopefully invest to mitigate it. I know government processes better, and as someone who could be seen as a socialist, I agree with Musk on one thing: government is expensive. Unlike him, I think it’s generally cheaper than private companies or charity. However, in the industries where Musk operates (transport), his entrepreneurial talent makes his contribution much cheaper. He doesn’t like public money to be wasted — that’s his publicly stated “political leanings” and one that has motivated SpaceX existence. I don’t think it’s very controversial, actually (no one likes to waste money) but it is relevant. What he asks for is to have the ability to lower it. Therefore: yes, his leanings matter. In that case, and probably a majority of his projects that are government-funded, they are so because it is cheaper to have Musk’s company do it. Which is good. I’m not a US tax payer, so I shouldn’t care so much, but I would say: there isn’t a contradiction with trying to improve what you think is broken. If he was asking to prevent competitors from entering the market for government-contract, there I could see an issue.
ColinWright 13y ago
In deference to comments made, I've removed most of the information I originally posted. I included titles and web domains, but now I quote just the HN references. There have been several previous posts of this story. Here are some. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648105 (some discussion) Here are others, without significant comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648225 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648748 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649108 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649218 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649504 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7651066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7651066 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7652383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7652383 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7653026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7653026 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654433 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654821
- rmthompson 13y ago
  Not annoying at all...
- cvbncvbncgbc 13y ago
  Except for one with 7 comments there are no discussions in them. A lot of articles with identical topic are usually posted on HN, yet the only relevant ones are those with activity. Others fade automatically. Do you have a purpose with your fullscreen comment?
  - gus_massa 13y ago
    I also think that the continuous submission of the same new from different sources is a problem. (But I usually only post a “previous discussion” when one of the old versions have a lot of comments, or a very interesting comment.) Most of them are only a rehash of the original new, without any additional information. Sometimes it’s worst, and every rehash lost a part of the information and add some hype. The guidelines advice to submit the original version. The problem is that a lot of interesting technical new are only submitted once, and they are lost in the infinite streaming of almost-dupes. In the last days I saw a few: “Earthlike planet”, “Fuelband”, “Codebabes”, “Atari ET”

30 points by kmfrk 13y ago

A lawsuit with an announcement at the National Press Club? This is a man who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. Every time I think I couldn't love Elon Musk more.

colechristensen 13y ago

Everybody wins when there's real competition in space.

samstave 13y ago

This will likely be un popular: but surely we praise SpaceX when they are trying to sue the government to get some of that sweet launch contract business; but we will say nothing whn they are launching satellites designed to either kill or spy on anyone by launching more tentacles of the octopus!

Roritharr 13y ago
If Musk continues to play his Tony Stark Cosplay he's going to insert some kind of backdoor into satellites SpaceX launches for the DOD.
cvbncvbncgbc 13y ago
Limiting launches is not the proper solution. If you want change, start with your local state representative.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  The ballot box is a placebo: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/princeton-scholar-demise-of-democracy-america-tpm-interview http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/princeton-scholar-demise-of-... If you want to change what government does, do everything you can get away with to change it. That's how the people who actually get their way do it.
ghshephard 13y ago
"launching satellites designed to either kill or spy on anyone by launching more tentacles of the octopus!" Satellite designed to kill? I think that's more a plot line to a movie. I don't think we've launched, or are planning to launch any killer satellites. And, with regards to "spy on anyone" - isn't it generally considered that transparency is a good thing for geopolitics? The physics of satellites/optics are such that you don't really need to worry about satellites personally spying on you beyond the resolution of a vehicle...
- s_q_b 13y ago
  I don't agree with the OP's position, but we are launching satellites designed to kill, or at least testing their feasibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_Global_Strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_Global_Strike
  - cdash 13y ago
    That is not a satellite.
    - s_q_b 13y ago
      Space-based platforms are one vector being considered for prompt global strike. To quote the cited article: "Possible delivery systems include: ... a kinetic weapon launched from an orbiting space platform"
- dingaling 13y ago
  > you don't really need to worry about satellites personally spying on you beyond the resolution of a vehicle.. "The IMPROVED CRYSTAL's sophisticated electronics provides sharper images than the KH-11, comparable in quality to the best of the film return satellites, with a resolution approaching ten centimeters. " http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/imint/kh-12.htm http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/imint/kh-12.htm
  - danielweber 13y ago

sbierwagen 13y ago

SpaceX is a private sector success story-- as long as you ignore that they get most of their revenue from government contracts. For a libertarian, he sure likes taking tax money.

rmthompson 13y ago
I'm not sure how you think a person's political leanings are even a little relevant to this discussion.
- bertil 13y ago
  A CEO's leanings are relevant when they are clearly stated, and inspire a large part of his strategy -- to take a similarly controversial subject in the US, imagine the CEO of a gun-maker “against weapons”; that would come off as hypocritical. I don’t think that there is such a thing as being “against weapons” though. Some people don’t think that one should profit from the use of deadly force; in that case, not using a significant portion of that company’s profits to repair damages from misused weapons would be callous. In most cases, weapons manufacturer are direly aware of the issue with what they sell, and try to make better quality devices to prevent them. Namely, a policeman friend told me that Glocks (could be another brand, I know very little about firearms) were appreciated by her colleagues who do a lot of pursuits because they don’t tend to accidentally fire when they drop from their holster, a rare but potentially tragic event. Glock makes money from that fear, hopefully invest to mitigate it. I know government processes better, and as someone who could be seen as a socialist, I agree with Musk on one thing: government is expensive. Unlike him, I think it’s generally cheaper than private companies or charity. However, in the industries where Musk operates (transport), his entrepreneurial talent makes his contribution much cheaper. He doesn’t like public money to be wasted — that’s his publicly stated “political leanings” and one that has motivated SpaceX existence. I don’t think it’s very controversial, actually (no one likes to waste money) but it is relevant. What he asks for is to have the ability to lower it. Therefore: yes, his leanings matter. In that case, and probably a majority of his projects that are government-funded, they are so because it is cheaper to have Musk’s company do it. Which is good. I’m not a US tax payer, so I shouldn’t care so much, but I would say: there isn’t a contradiction with trying to improve what you think is broken. If he was asking to prevent competitors from entering the market for government-contract, there I could see an issue.

ColinWright 13y ago

In deference to comments made, I've removed most of the information I originally posted. I included titles and web domains, but now I quote just the HN references. There have been several previous posts of this story. Here are some. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648105 (some discussion) Here are others, without significant comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648225 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648748 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649108 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649218 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7649504 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7651066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7651066 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7652383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7652383 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7653026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7653026 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654433 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7654821

rmthompson 13y ago
Not annoying at all...
cvbncvbncgbc 13y ago
Except for one with 7 comments there are no discussions in them. A lot of articles with identical topic are usually posted on HN, yet the only relevant ones are those with activity. Others fade automatically. Do you have a purpose with your fullscreen comment?
- gus_massa 13y ago
  I also think that the continuous submission of the same new from different sources is a problem. (But I usually only post a “previous discussion” when one of the old versions have a lot of comments, or a very interesting comment.) Most of them are only a rehash of the original new, without any additional information. Sometimes it’s worst, and every rehash lost a part of the information and add some hype. The guidelines advice to submit the original version. The problem is that a lot of interesting technical new are only submitted once, and they are lost in the infinite streaming of almost-dupes. In the last days I saw a few: “Earthlike planet”, “Fuelband”, “Codebabes”, “Atari ET”