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Going from real development tools to basic web development. Essentially from Delphi to web development, passing by QT/C++ development and with some excursions t
by waps 12y ago
Going from real development tools to basic web development. Essentially from Delphi to web development, passing by QT/C++ development and with some excursions to android and other things. Journey destination : got really, really, really tired of web development and ran to something without UIs (beyond cli).
Manually making sure your frontend/backend matches. I'll repeat. Manually. Weakly typed. Constant bugs. Constantly seeing parts of your implementation getting deprecated, going unsupported, and of course not matching clients' "hot new thing" (WHY do you need a UI designer, which is a title given to every fuckwit that has ever started photoshop, successfully or -usually- not on an internal order management system ?). Impossible to generate tests that actually catch those bugs. Inconsistent language implementations, to say nothing of dom. Zero support for any kind of legacy thing. Layout engine inferior to what was available before I was born on machines that get their ass kicked by my watch (talking about the NeXT platform).
HTML/Javascripts idea of "cross-platform" does not mean even the fucking basic integer datatype is actually cross platform. HTML UI's don't reflow at all. There are UI engines that reflow pretty badly (VB). There are UI engines that reflow kinda bad (android/delphi, with delphi slightly better). There are UI engines that actually reflow (QT/GTK), I wouldn't say they do it really well, but acceptably. Web is undoubtedly much worse than VB/Delphi in reflowing. Much worse.
Getting 4 buttons stuck to the lower right of the component currently on display, which will push out other things is in-fucking-possible. You see theses written, hundreds of pages, on -get this- getting 2 columns of text displaying side-by-side. Editing a string correctly, knowing it might contain non-latin characters, is impossible. Translating a webpage dynamically from one language to another, impossible (you can change it on the server, which of course means that any strings generated in javascript need a different solution -aargh-).
Getting a redraw loop going for a game is so ridiculously difficult and slow it's painful to write about it. Give me a fucking canvas that calls me when it needs to draw itself, with OPTIONAL double-buffering. Doesn't exist (no, HTML5 canvas is not this, is slow and resource hungry, and this will never change due to how it's designed).
I was happy for 6 months with a small side-scroller implemented on a microcontroller that, together with the LCD, ran for about 6 months on an old CR2025 battery. This thing provides 225 mAh over it's entire lifetime, keeping a game going for 6 months.
The state of the art HTML5 side scroller at http://playbiolab.com/ http://playbiolab.com/ drains my phone battery in 42 minutes flat. Granted, the music's better. The screen size isn't. That battery is a rechargeable 2300 mAh.
Getting anything remotely resembling productivity going on these platforms (I refuse to refer to web as a single platform) was so hard that I just gave up and ran the other way. And now, of course, every UI toolkit is "legacy" at best, just plain unmaintained at worst, and a non-starter for any project you might want to do.
That is actually considered progress.
How did webdev ever get this fucked up ?
- michaelmior 12y agoI've been doing web dev for over 15 years now (granted, most of that as a hobby) and I've never really felt this kind of frustration. Weak typing and most of the other things you mentioned have never really bothered me. That's not to say that there aren't challenges, but that's what keeps it fun for me :)
- waps 12y agoHave you done development outside of web development ? 15 years would make your start time 1999. Did you ever do a large program with a swing gui ? A Delphi program ? What do you think ? How do your experiences on the web compare to the others ?
- michaelmior 12y agoNever done any Delphi and only a couple fairly small Swing/GTK apps. Most of my other development experience has been backend systems. I'll agree Web development has a lot of rough edges, but the main reason I love it so much is that it's the easiest way to get code I write in front of others.
- SixSigma 12y agoOne thing I have learned is that before writing much code, one of my main considerations is "how am I going to debug this?"