4 ms·

None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drink, though. Which of his bullet points explain the pros and cons of wine with dinn

by mjn 12y ago

None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drink, though. Which of his bullet points explain the pros and cons of wine with dinner vs. not having wine with dinner?

jsaxton86 12y ago
"It is expensive." is definitely relevant. If my fiancee and I go out for dinner and we each have a couple of drinks, the tab at least doubles.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- mjn 12y ago
  This is also my argument (100% serious) against restaurant meals: if I go out for a few drinks and get hungry enough to order some food, the tab at least doubles, sometimes triples (in Copenhagen, a burger costs as much as 3-5 beers). That's why it's important to learn to cook, so you can eat before going out and save significant money.
kylec 12y ago
He's not making an argument about nuanced tradeoffs, though. He's saying that he gets no benefit ("It makes me feel bleh", "Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities") and that there are some drawbacks for him ("It dumbs you down", "It's expensive"). You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his.
- mjn 12y ago
  > You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his. I can deny the author his unfounded generalizations, though. He's explaining why he doesn't like getting trashed, going out to a club and having a dozen drinks. All his bullet points are about that situation. Sure, I agree that is bad. It results in hangovers, feeling shitty, large expenditures of cash, and other such bad events. So: don't do that. But that's not a problem with alcohol, that's a problem with party/club culture. But don't write an article about something different. If you're writing about why you've changed your ways from going out to clubs and getting hammered, entitle it "why I no longer go out to clubs and get hammered". Don't try to over-generalize your experience.
  - kylec 12y ago
    Not all the author's reasons have to with going out or party/club culture. Look no further than the first two points: - It makes me feel bleh. - Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities. Those points have nothing to do with binge drinking or party/club culture, and are sufficient justification for the author's preferences (Though I maintain that no justification is necessary at all). Everything else is just additional examples of drawbacks, and there's nothing wrong with them being specific to a specific kind of drinking.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- thret 12y ago
  I find it hard to believe a glass of wine matched with dinner does not increase enjoyment of the activity. I realise taste is acquired but for someone who already drinks wine surely this is ignorance. I've seen someone order a $100 steak well-done. They may enjoy this meal, but they have no goddamn idea what they are missing.
  - kylec 12y ago
    In your case? Absolutely. In the average case? Probably. In his case? You have no way to know. In my case, I don't like the taste of alcohol, to me it's very pungent. Also, I tend to run on the warmer side, and alcohol tends to heat me up even more. Therefore, for me, a glass of wine with dinner - "matched" or no - decreases my enjoyment of the activity.
rdtsc 12y ago
> None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drin Doesn't it? [1] > It makes me feel bleh. Heck I would stop there. "Why don't you like ham and cheese sandwiches?" "It makes me feel bleh...". Ok case closed. [2] > Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities. That is a response to the American cultural expectation perhaps. "You will have more fun when you drink". Well and he doesn't seem to. Neither do I, actually, I am just as introverted and awkward as when sober. But I do like the taste of some beers and wines. So I drink those once in a while. [3] > It is expensive. I don't know, we already have 3 good reasons. Alcohol in US _is_ ridiculously expensive due to taxes and regulations. Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said. On a meta level, I guess, even discussing or thinking about seems odd. It is his personal preference, why does he need to explain himself? The fact that he does, and that we are using so many words to talk about it, also tells something interesting about how drinking culture is part of the culture and it is different perhaps countries, and that people feel strongly about it in one way or another.
- mjn 12y ago
  Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said. "Per session"?! My point is that his article is ostensibly about why he doesn't drink at all, but his bullet points only legitimately apply to why you shouldn't have 20 drinks in an outing. Having one or two beers at a bar in the U.S. will not set you back $100 (it'd have to be a pretty weird bar). The fact that you don't want to spend $100 is a good reason not to order 20 beers, but not a good reason to avoid alcohol entirely. I don't like spending a lot when I go out either, but this doesn't prevent me from ordering a smallish number of beers. Heck, "why I don't go to bullshit white-tablecloth restaurants" would a better article if that's your main issue. When I think of peer-pressured outings that resulted in annoying overspending, $40 steaks figure a lot more heavily in the story than $5 beers do.
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    That is just one of the points, not the main one. In general, it depends where, how often, and with whom he goes out. It does add up even with comparing "dinner" vs "dinner+drinks". Dinner+drinks if done often will add to quite a bit over time. Mixed drinks can be ridiculously expensive. Not keeping up with 4,5 drink per night, or not buying the next round for example, will also raise the same question "why aren't you drinking". He'd probably be back writing the same article just saying "I am sick of people asking me why I only drink 1 drink a night and not 3".

by mjn 12y ago

None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drink, though. Which of his bullet points explain the pros and cons of wine with dinner vs. not having wine with dinner?

jsaxton86 12y ago

"It is expensive." is definitely relevant. If my fiancee and I go out for dinner and we each have a couple of drinks, the tab at least doubles.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
mjn 12y ago
This is also my argument (100% serious) against restaurant meals: if I go out for a few drinks and get hungry enough to order some food, the tab at least doubles, sometimes triples (in Copenhagen, a burger costs as much as 3-5 beers). That's why it's important to learn to cook, so you can eat before going out and save significant money.

kylec 12y ago

He's not making an argument about nuanced tradeoffs, though. He's saying that he gets no benefit ("It makes me feel bleh", "Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities") and that there are some drawbacks for him ("It dumbs you down", "It's expensive"). You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his.

mjn 12y ago
> You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his. I can deny the author his unfounded generalizations, though. He's explaining why he doesn't like getting trashed, going out to a club and having a dozen drinks. All his bullet points are about that situation. Sure, I agree that is bad. It results in hangovers, feeling shitty, large expenditures of cash, and other such bad events. So: don't do that. But that's not a problem with alcohol, that's a problem with party/club culture. But don't write an article about something different. If you're writing about why you've changed your ways from going out to clubs and getting hammered, entitle it "why I no longer go out to clubs and get hammered". Don't try to over-generalize your experience.
- kylec 12y ago
  Not all the author's reasons have to with going out or party/club culture. Look no further than the first two points: - It makes me feel bleh. - Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities. Those points have nothing to do with binge drinking or party/club culture, and are sufficient justification for the author's preferences (Though I maintain that no justification is necessary at all). Everything else is just additional examples of drawbacks, and there's nothing wrong with them being specific to a specific kind of drinking.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
thret 12y ago
I find it hard to believe a glass of wine matched with dinner does not increase enjoyment of the activity. I realise taste is acquired but for someone who already drinks wine surely this is ignorance. I've seen someone order a $100 steak well-done. They may enjoy this meal, but they have no goddamn idea what they are missing.
- kylec 12y ago
  In your case? Absolutely. In the average case? Probably. In his case? You have no way to know. In my case, I don't like the taste of alcohol, to me it's very pungent. Also, I tend to run on the warmer side, and alcohol tends to heat me up even more. Therefore, for me, a glass of wine with dinner - "matched" or no - decreases my enjoyment of the activity.

rdtsc 12y ago

> None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drin Doesn't it? [1] > It makes me feel bleh. Heck I would stop there. "Why don't you like ham and cheese sandwiches?" "It makes me feel bleh...". Ok case closed. [2] > Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities. That is a response to the American cultural expectation perhaps. "You will have more fun when you drink". Well and he doesn't seem to. Neither do I, actually, I am just as introverted and awkward as when sober. But I do like the taste of some beers and wines. So I drink those once in a while. [3] > It is expensive. I don't know, we already have 3 good reasons. Alcohol in US _is_ ridiculously expensive due to taxes and regulations. Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said. On a meta level, I guess, even discussing or thinking about seems odd. It is his personal preference, why does he need to explain himself? The fact that he does, and that we are using so many words to talk about it, also tells something interesting about how drinking culture is part of the culture and it is different perhaps countries, and that people feel strongly about it in one way or another.

mjn 12y ago
Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said. "Per session"?! My point is that his article is ostensibly about why he doesn't drink at all, but his bullet points only legitimately apply to why you shouldn't have 20 drinks in an outing. Having one or two beers at a bar in the U.S. will not set you back $100 (it'd have to be a pretty weird bar). The fact that you don't want to spend $100 is a good reason not to order 20 beers, but not a good reason to avoid alcohol entirely. I don't like spending a lot when I go out either, but this doesn't prevent me from ordering a smallish number of beers. Heck, "why I don't go to bullshit white-tablecloth restaurants" would a better article if that's your main issue. When I think of peer-pressured outings that resulted in annoying overspending, $40 steaks figure a lot more heavily in the story than $5 beers do.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  That is just one of the points, not the main one. In general, it depends where, how often, and with whom he goes out. It does add up even with comparing "dinner" vs "dinner+drinks". Dinner+drinks if done often will add to quite a bit over time. Mixed drinks can be ridiculously expensive. Not keeping up with 4,5 drink per night, or not buying the next round for example, will also raise the same question "why aren't you drinking". He'd probably be back writing the same article just saying "I am sick of people asking me why I only drink 1 drink a night and not 3".