3 ms·

I'm surprised that Elm is not mentioned: http://elm-lang.org/edit/examples/Reactive/ZipCodes.elm http://elm-lang.org/edit/examples/Reactive/ZipCodes.elm True,

by jnbiche 13y ago

I'm surprised that Elm is not mentioned: http://elm-lang.org/edit/examples/Reactive/ZipCodes.elm http://elm-lang.org/edit/examples/Reactive/ZipCodes.elm True, it's not Haskell, but it's clearly highly-influenced by Haskell. Besides, they mention Fay, which isn't Haskell, either. If the Haskell wiki didn't require a log-in and registration that requires special, personal permission, I'd add it myself.

strager 13y ago
It's a wiki. You are free to add this information. =]
- jnbiche 13y ago
  Did you not read my last sentence? I'm actually not free to add the information. There's a special registration process that requires human intervention. If the Haskell Wiki didn't require me to e-mail somebody personally and ask for permission to register, I'd be much more inclined to provide a one-of edit. By the time this person gets back to me (he's probably in Europe), I'll have neither the time nor inclination to make a one-time edit to a wiki that I've only visited on a handful of occasions. I gnome-edit wikis all the time -- at least the ones with user-friendly sign-ups. Was the Haskell Wiki so beset by viagra spammers that it had to institute a human-mediated registration process? Maybe it was, but the downside is that then people like me are less likely to register for one-off edits.
  - chrisdone 13y ago
    Good point, it was full of spam and registration was closed. I forgot about that. It was because we had a really old MediaWiki version so it was actually unsafe to allow anyone untrusted to post on it due to exploits possible at the time. I say “we”, I don't have access to manage haskell.org. I'mma ping the mailing list to see about fixing this.
    - jnbiche 13y ago
      I think that's an excellent idea. Well-done.
  - kluge 13y ago
    I think spam was exactly the problem. It's a shame and seems to really hurt. There's a lot of outdated information in the wiki and I suspect the obstacle to making fixes is a big contributor.
coolsunglasses 13y ago
I don't recommend Elm because it's not Haskell and it's too boxed into its way of doing things. Elm is really, really far from being an acceptable substitute for Haskell. It's a gap comparable to that of what Java and Scala can do. PureScript is a better choice for a Haskell'ish language that is generically applicable to both browser and node-backed JS. Importantly, you can decide how you want to do FRP/callbacks/whatevers according to the needs of the libraries/app/problem you're working with. Also, PureScript has typeclasses, higher kinded polymorphism, the works. It even has some cool stuff that Haskell does not built in! See this post for example of why higher-kinded polymorphism is important: http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-04-11-aeson-and-user-created-types.html http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-04-11-aeson-and-user-created...
- jnbiche 13y ago
  I would agree that there are probably more "Haskellish" compile-to-JS languages, but the wiki mentioned CoffeeScript and TypeScript. Surely Elm ranks above them in your book? Besides, Fay doesn't have typeclasses, either, and it's mentioned. I wasn't making the claim that Elm was somehow better than those options, just that I was surprised it wasn't included. I've just played around with Elm, nothing serious. You're correct that Elm seems more like a DSL in some ways with its required FRP, and I agree that typeclasses and HKTs are nice, but if I could choose between doing my day job in Elm or staying with JavaScript, I know which I'd pick (hint: it's not JS).
  - coolsunglasses 13y ago
    Do not underestimate how powerful and useful HKTs and typeclasses are until you've used them in anger. I have a guide to learning Haskell here: https://gist.github.com/bitemyapp/8739525 https://gist.github.com/bitemyapp/8739525 You should give it a whirl. Just use PureScript if you're fortunate enough to know alternatives to JS exist :)
    - skrebbel 13y ago
      Why are you intentionally ignoring half of the parent's comment, twice? You're not contributing to the discussion at all.

by jnbiche 13y ago

strager 13y ago

It's a wiki. You are free to add this information. =]

jnbiche 13y ago
Did you not read my last sentence? I'm actually not free to add the information. There's a special registration process that requires human intervention. If the Haskell Wiki didn't require me to e-mail somebody personally and ask for permission to register, I'd be much more inclined to provide a one-of edit. By the time this person gets back to me (he's probably in Europe), I'll have neither the time nor inclination to make a one-time edit to a wiki that I've only visited on a handful of occasions. I gnome-edit wikis all the time -- at least the ones with user-friendly sign-ups. Was the Haskell Wiki so beset by viagra spammers that it had to institute a human-mediated registration process? Maybe it was, but the downside is that then people like me are less likely to register for one-off edits.
- chrisdone 13y ago
  Good point, it was full of spam and registration was closed. I forgot about that. It was because we had a really old MediaWiki version so it was actually unsafe to allow anyone untrusted to post on it due to exploits possible at the time. I say “we”, I don't have access to manage haskell.org. I'mma ping the mailing list to see about fixing this.
  - jnbiche 13y ago
    I think that's an excellent idea. Well-done.
- kluge 13y ago
  I think spam was exactly the problem. It's a shame and seems to really hurt. There's a lot of outdated information in the wiki and I suspect the obstacle to making fixes is a big contributor.

coolsunglasses 13y ago

I don't recommend Elm because it's not Haskell and it's too boxed into its way of doing things. Elm is really, really far from being an acceptable substitute for Haskell. It's a gap comparable to that of what Java and Scala can do. PureScript is a better choice for a Haskell'ish language that is generically applicable to both browser and node-backed JS. Importantly, you can decide how you want to do FRP/callbacks/whatevers according to the needs of the libraries/app/problem you're working with. Also, PureScript has typeclasses, higher kinded polymorphism, the works. It even has some cool stuff that Haskell does not built in! See this post for example of why higher-kinded polymorphism is important: http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-04-11-aeson-and-user-created-types.html http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-04-11-aeson-and-user-created...

jnbiche 13y ago
I would agree that there are probably more "Haskellish" compile-to-JS languages, but the wiki mentioned CoffeeScript and TypeScript. Surely Elm ranks above them in your book? Besides, Fay doesn't have typeclasses, either, and it's mentioned. I wasn't making the claim that Elm was somehow better than those options, just that I was surprised it wasn't included. I've just played around with Elm, nothing serious. You're correct that Elm seems more like a DSL in some ways with its required FRP, and I agree that typeclasses and HKTs are nice, but if I could choose between doing my day job in Elm or staying with JavaScript, I know which I'd pick (hint: it's not JS).
- coolsunglasses 13y ago
  Do not underestimate how powerful and useful HKTs and typeclasses are until you've used them in anger. I have a guide to learning Haskell here: https://gist.github.com/bitemyapp/8739525 https://gist.github.com/bitemyapp/8739525 You should give it a whirl. Just use PureScript if you're fortunate enough to know alternatives to JS exist :)
  - skrebbel 13y ago
    Why are you intentionally ignoring half of the parent's comment, twice? You're not contributing to the discussion at all.