9 ms·

Irony is ruining our culture

59 points by mrrrgn 12y ago

hansy 12y ago
And as always, something else came along to fill the void: comedy. Shows like "The Daily Show", artists like Louis C.K., and even web comics like "Dinosaur Comics" now do the job irony allegedly left behind of revealing the hypocrisies and absurdities of the modern world.
- pjscott 12y ago
  Because you mentioned Dinosaur Comics, I suppose someone needs to find a relevant one and link to it. Like relevant xkcd linking, except less mainstream. http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=166 http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=166
Zigurd 12y ago
> "This environment gave artists few choices: sentimentality, nihilism, or irony." I suppose one could call it art to construct a giant synthetic angst generator and bathe in its effluent.
tootie 12y ago
This is all just symptomatic and the informalization of society. Seinfeld was snarky and shallow, but it was ultimately about laughing at social faux pas. We're rapidly running out of things that are morally acceptable but socially unacceptable.
- sp332 12y ago
  Have you tried watching the show Royal Pains? It was hard for me to get through an episode because everyone was just incredibly awkward all the time. I don't think we're really running low on that kind of thing.
vezzy-fnord 12y ago
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism I'd hardly say we're in a post-postmodern stage, though... whatever the fuck that means, I'm assuming it's a reactionary stage against postmodernism, which would make it plain modernism.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > I'd hardly say we're in a post-postmodern stage, though... whatever the fuck that means, I'm assuming it's a reactionary stage against postmodernism, which would make it plain modernism. There's no reason a reaction against post-modernism would have to be plain modernism. Its hardly as if approaches to the world are on a simple unidimensional scale where there are only two extremes, and any reaction against one must be simply its polar opposite.
- leoc 12y ago
  We've been in a post-pomo world since 9/11: see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/89-CRITICAL-INQUIRY-GB.pdf http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/89-CRITICAL-I... if you doubt this. What's odd is someone dusting off the irony-is-killing-us essay template again after a decade of stridency and self-assurance.
  - pradocchia 12y ago
    That's an interesting piece. You can see how some lines of thought have become verboten in respectable society. This era might be considered the Rise of Fear and the Return of Authority.
- austrapolith 12y ago
  FWIW I think that the younger generation is realizing they shouldn't afraid to be genuine about their feelings and public statements, unlike Gen X and the older Millenials before them. The world is getting weirder and scarier and the information/entertainment overload is overwhelming and anxiety-inducing. A lot of people are seeking out a real warmth and an un-snarky, eyeroll-free reception to their words and art. Problem is that our culture now forgets nothing. Too much self-reflection, too much nostalgia.
dvanduzer 12y ago
If you remember the late 90s well enough, this reached a head with Jedediah Purdy's For Common Things. We have come so far full circle in 20 years, that Aaron Sorkin quoted Purdy without a hint of irony on his latest HBO show. This was my favorite response then, and maybe Stein'll do a reprise: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992159,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992159,...
- DonGateley 12y ago
  You beat me to the punch. Purdy's book has been far too obscure for far too long. He was the first to awaken me to this cultural deviance and I've been stuck with seeing it everywhere ever since. While it may be too simplistic I blame, J.D. Salinger, Catcher in the Rye and Holden Caulfield almost entirely for this plague of irony. I sincerely wish the creepy Salinger had been lost in the war. As a culture we would be the better for it. When I read For Common Things I thought perhaps it could be the bell weather of change. Instead it was mostly ignored. He was remarkably young and remarkably brilliant when he wrote it and it gave me hope for the for the influence of his generation. Alas... This article made me realize what it is that I find so absolutely compelling in DFW's works. I find his suicide not the least surprising in light of his remarkable sense of sincerity. How could one with such sensitivities continue in this brave new world of snark.
  - dvanduzer 12y ago
    """ I asked Purdy if the book wasn't just an excuse for not having a sense of humor. He said, "That's a pretty nifty little piece of psychological deductionism." I took that as a yes. Then, to make conversation, I asked him his favorite movie. He paused and said, "I like movies, but I don't orient to them with the same sophistication as a lot of folks." """
- dfc 12y ago
  During my 1L year while procrastinating for my Property final I came across an article Purdy wrote about Johnson v. M’Intosh.[1] It reminded me of that neat white book from long ago and I took the time to reread it. If you enjoyed the book when it came out I encourage you to reread it. [1]: Property and Empire: The Law of Imperialism in Johnson v. M’Intosh -- http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2489&context=faculty_scholarship http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...
zoba 12y ago
"Skeptics reject sincerity because they worry blind belief can lead to such evils as the Ku Klux Klan and Nazism. They think strong conviction implies vulnerability to emotional rhetoric and lack of critical awareness. " The article brings this point up, but I don't think it does a good job of dismissing it. I agree that irony can be harmful to culture, however, I think irony still has a job to do in our culture. There's a lot of people believing a lot of things which they don't have evidence for (religion being the biggest one that comes to mind), and I think having an approach of doubt to things can be a good way to be sure society/it's individuals believe the most accurate things.
- philosophus 12y ago
  How is believing in religion different than believing in irony and pluralism?
  - dfc 12y ago
    How does one "believe in irony"?
    - gegtik 12y ago
      When one is sufficiently religious, faith/belief become the paradigm for all mental processes. It becomes impossible to fathom a non-religious capacity of thought.
      - dfc 12y ago
        But philosophus' point seemed to be that it was possible for a secular person to "believe in irony." Personally I think it sounds a lot like "I believe in dinosaurs."
carsongross 12y ago
Until art can take religion seriously again, it's a pointless discussion. Great artists are authentic and, sans religion, the authentic position is nihilism: everything else begs The Question. The authors clearly understand this, at some level, by pointing out the singular value of black spiritual music in american history. But, like most of today's elite, they are unable to look the obvious answer in the face, because it's so horrifying.
- shmageggy 12y ago
  I find attitudes like this bewildering. I can't imagine being so uncreative as to assert that the only authentic non-religious attitude is a nihlistic one. How hard is it to take the human condition and it's joys and sorrows seriously and at face-value, exalting what we are and might become without resorting to silly supernatural fairy tales. We don't need religion for great art, we need to cultivate our expressions of humanism.
  - steveklabnik 12y ago
    Even Mr. God Is Dead himself was not a nihilist. He talked about it a lot, but because it was something he saw in the world, not because he thought it was a good thing. Art certainly can be about overcoming nihilism, but it certainly does not require religion to do it.
    - defen 12y ago
      As always with these discussions, I think it comes down to what you mean by "nihilist". He certainly thought that the end of traditional Christian values was a good thing, which is why many people call him a nihilist. That's not to say he believed in "nothing", Big Lebowski style, though.
      - steveklabnik 12y ago
        Vocabulary is so hard. :/ Yes, you're totally correct, though.
Bulkington 12y ago
Irony is an exercise in cleverness. I can speak only about US pop culture, but to consider Stewart and Colbert, clever and amusing as they are, in the avant garde of political thought is scary. Facile isn't wise, and for some reason wisdom is now (maybe always?) deemed boring. Too much television, too much Web distraction. Turn it all off. Twitter, Facebook, football, futbol, campaign ads, dot dot dot. Give me something useful: The Weather Channel and porn, in moderation. It's difficult to think deeply about complex issues. And arguably meaningless. Still... Jeez, I'm a codger. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Irony is a sedative. Absurdity requires revolt. Pass the bong. One more hit before I study for finals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus EDIT: Not unusually, I popped off before reading the post. I'm not a DFW fanboy, but I've found everything of his I've ever read to be substantial. Very substantial. He dared.
- dfc 12y ago
  > Not unusually, I popped off before reading the post. Does "popped off" mean that you did not read the linked article and merely used the title as a cue for a freeform writing exercise? And this is not an unusual thing for you to do while browsing HN?
  - Bulkington 12y ago
    "Shit... charging a man with murder in this place was like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500. I took the mission. What the hell else was I gonna do?" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
jccalhoun 12y ago
These kids these days! Why back in my day...!
joefkelley 12y ago
For a great counter-argument, see: http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977 http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
austrapolith 12y ago
"But David Foster Wallace predicted a hopeful turn. He could see a new wave of artistic rebels who 'might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels… who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles… Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue.' " Call me naive but I've thought about this before -- that this oversaturation of irony and the mainstreaming of 20th century-style rebellion could very soon have a backlash in the form of the rise of some kind of fascistic movement among young people.
leephillips 12y ago
I have to admit I only made it about half way through this, by which time it seemed to me that the authors had little more grasp of the concept of irony than Alanis Morissette. Irony is neither cynicism nor snark. It is an indispensable aspect of most forms of written expression; it is almost impossible to write a successful work of opinion or fiction of any length without mastering this classical tool of rhetoric. Where would Shakespeare be without irony? And what of the ancient Greeks? It's not modern, it is a connection with our heritage.
- literalusername 12y ago
  By "irony", I'm pretty sure they mean "sarcasm". It seems increasingly common for people to confuse the two.
  - leephillips 12y ago
    But sarcasm is a form of irony: its lowest and crudest, the first one we learn when we're brats in elementary school. I'm pretty sure they have it confused with snark and cynicism, because they use these terms while parading their confusion pretty baldly. They're also talking about something like a dread of sincerity as part of one's lifestyle, I think. Real things in some circles, I don't doubt, but not the same as irony. And nothing to do with my life or the people I talk to. (I don't watch much TV, but I thought Seinfeld was brilliant. Oddly, I think part of its technique had to do with a distinct lack of irony, in making things unusually literal.)
  - dvanduzer 12y ago
    So common, in fact, that this joke was masterfully made nearly 15 years ago: http://pastebin.com/8hLsNWrY http://pastebin.com/8hLsNWrY edit: I mean the joke about Alanis Morrisette.
- zwegner 12y ago
  Huh? Alanis Morissette is a master of irony. She wrote an entire song about irony that doesn't contain a single ironic situation. It's so thick you can taste it.
- 12y ago
thrownaway2424 12y ago
Is the font absolutely gigantic for any one else? I get 3 lines per screen on mobile chrome.
- tsm 12y ago
  Yes. If I pinched out it would turn into a normal size, wait a second, and then return to being terrible. I couldn't get through more than a paragraph because of this.
dfc 12y ago
It is remarkable how diluted the word irony has become. More often than not it seems that people think "irony" is serendipity's evil twin. The definition of "random" has also suffered a similar impotence by pervasiveness. It is not uncommon to hear casual conversations where the words random and ironic are used interchangeably. The next word on the semantic extinction watchlist is literally. If you ask google for the definition of literally you are presented with two senses of the word: 1: in a literal manner or sense; exactly. informal: used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true. Sooner than later "informal" will be replaced with "2." and literally will literally mean not literally.
- pash 12y ago
  Where did the phrase "serendipity's evil twin" come from? 9 results: https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22serendipity%27s+evil+twin%22&oq=%22serendipity%27s+evil+twin%22 https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22serendipity%27s+evil+twi...
  - dfc 12y ago
    This is just my observation of the current definition of the word. I do not know if I unwittingly stole it from someone. I did not see this result in the list of google hits: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082
    - pash 12y ago
      It's a striking phrase, but not quite right. ... If you can recognize the way in which it is not quite right, I think you will have recognized the genius of the attempt.
      - dfc 12y ago
        I do not understand how my opinion can be judged "not quite right"? This is my impression of the concept people seem to have in mind when they use the word irony. I am not saying this is the definition of irony. "From what I can tell most people's definition is something between 'serendipity's evil twin' and 'partially related.'" --dfc[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
vixin 12y ago
I may be wrong but somehow I don't think creators/artists read social comment like this and say to themselves "Gosh, he's absolutely right, from now on I'll give irony a miss and head off in a new direction". If they do then I would guess they're pretty derivative and unlikely to produce work deemed to be outstandingly original.

59 points by mrrrgn 12y ago

hansy 12y ago

And as always, something else came along to fill the void: comedy. Shows like "The Daily Show", artists like Louis C.K., and even web comics like "Dinosaur Comics" now do the job irony allegedly left behind of revealing the hypocrisies and absurdities of the modern world.

pjscott 12y ago
Because you mentioned Dinosaur Comics, I suppose someone needs to find a relevant one and link to it. Like relevant xkcd linking, except less mainstream. http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=166 http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=166

Zigurd 12y ago

> "This environment gave artists few choices: sentimentality, nihilism, or irony." I suppose one could call it art to construct a giant synthetic angst generator and bathe in its effluent.

tootie 12y ago

This is all just symptomatic and the informalization of society. Seinfeld was snarky and shallow, but it was ultimately about laughing at social faux pas. We're rapidly running out of things that are morally acceptable but socially unacceptable.

sp332 12y ago
Have you tried watching the show Royal Pains? It was hard for me to get through an episode because everyone was just incredibly awkward all the time. I don't think we're really running low on that kind of thing.

vezzy-fnord 12y ago

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism I'd hardly say we're in a post-postmodern stage, though... whatever the fuck that means, I'm assuming it's a reactionary stage against postmodernism, which would make it plain modernism.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> I'd hardly say we're in a post-postmodern stage, though... whatever the fuck that means, I'm assuming it's a reactionary stage against postmodernism, which would make it plain modernism. There's no reason a reaction against post-modernism would have to be plain modernism. Its hardly as if approaches to the world are on a simple unidimensional scale where there are only two extremes, and any reaction against one must be simply its polar opposite.
leoc 12y ago
We've been in a post-pomo world since 9/11: see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/89-CRITICAL-INQUIRY-GB.pdf http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/89-CRITICAL-I... if you doubt this. What's odd is someone dusting off the irony-is-killing-us essay template again after a decade of stridency and self-assurance.
- pradocchia 12y ago
  That's an interesting piece. You can see how some lines of thought have become verboten in respectable society. This era might be considered the Rise of Fear and the Return of Authority.
austrapolith 12y ago
FWIW I think that the younger generation is realizing they shouldn't afraid to be genuine about their feelings and public statements, unlike Gen X and the older Millenials before them. The world is getting weirder and scarier and the information/entertainment overload is overwhelming and anxiety-inducing. A lot of people are seeking out a real warmth and an un-snarky, eyeroll-free reception to their words and art. Problem is that our culture now forgets nothing. Too much self-reflection, too much nostalgia.

dvanduzer 12y ago

If you remember the late 90s well enough, this reached a head with Jedediah Purdy's For Common Things. We have come so far full circle in 20 years, that Aaron Sorkin quoted Purdy without a hint of irony on his latest HBO show. This was my favorite response then, and maybe Stein'll do a reprise: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992159,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992159,...

DonGateley 12y ago
You beat me to the punch. Purdy's book has been far too obscure for far too long. He was the first to awaken me to this cultural deviance and I've been stuck with seeing it everywhere ever since. While it may be too simplistic I blame, J.D. Salinger, Catcher in the Rye and Holden Caulfield almost entirely for this plague of irony. I sincerely wish the creepy Salinger had been lost in the war. As a culture we would be the better for it. When I read For Common Things I thought perhaps it could be the bell weather of change. Instead it was mostly ignored. He was remarkably young and remarkably brilliant when he wrote it and it gave me hope for the for the influence of his generation. Alas... This article made me realize what it is that I find so absolutely compelling in DFW's works. I find his suicide not the least surprising in light of his remarkable sense of sincerity. How could one with such sensitivities continue in this brave new world of snark.
- dvanduzer 12y ago
  """ I asked Purdy if the book wasn't just an excuse for not having a sense of humor. He said, "That's a pretty nifty little piece of psychological deductionism." I took that as a yes. Then, to make conversation, I asked him his favorite movie. He paused and said, "I like movies, but I don't orient to them with the same sophistication as a lot of folks." """
dfc 12y ago
During my 1L year while procrastinating for my Property final I came across an article Purdy wrote about Johnson v. M’Intosh.[1] It reminded me of that neat white book from long ago and I took the time to reread it. If you enjoyed the book when it came out I encourage you to reread it. [1]: Property and Empire: The Law of Imperialism in Johnson v. M’Intosh -- http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2489&context=faculty_scholarship http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

zoba 12y ago

"Skeptics reject sincerity because they worry blind belief can lead to such evils as the Ku Klux Klan and Nazism. They think strong conviction implies vulnerability to emotional rhetoric and lack of critical awareness. " The article brings this point up, but I don't think it does a good job of dismissing it. I agree that irony can be harmful to culture, however, I think irony still has a job to do in our culture. There's a lot of people believing a lot of things which they don't have evidence for (religion being the biggest one that comes to mind), and I think having an approach of doubt to things can be a good way to be sure society/it's individuals believe the most accurate things.

philosophus 12y ago
How is believing in religion different than believing in irony and pluralism?
- dfc 12y ago
  How does one "believe in irony"?
  - gegtik 12y ago
    When one is sufficiently religious, faith/belief become the paradigm for all mental processes. It becomes impossible to fathom a non-religious capacity of thought.
    - dfc 12y ago
      But philosophus' point seemed to be that it was possible for a secular person to "believe in irony." Personally I think it sounds a lot like "I believe in dinosaurs."

carsongross 12y ago

Until art can take religion seriously again, it's a pointless discussion. Great artists are authentic and, sans religion, the authentic position is nihilism: everything else begs The Question. The authors clearly understand this, at some level, by pointing out the singular value of black spiritual music in american history. But, like most of today's elite, they are unable to look the obvious answer in the face, because it's so horrifying.

shmageggy 12y ago
I find attitudes like this bewildering. I can't imagine being so uncreative as to assert that the only authentic non-religious attitude is a nihlistic one. How hard is it to take the human condition and it's joys and sorrows seriously and at face-value, exalting what we are and might become without resorting to silly supernatural fairy tales. We don't need religion for great art, we need to cultivate our expressions of humanism.
- steveklabnik 12y ago
  Even Mr. God Is Dead himself was not a nihilist. He talked about it a lot, but because it was something he saw in the world, not because he thought it was a good thing. Art certainly can be about overcoming nihilism, but it certainly does not require religion to do it.
  - defen 12y ago
    As always with these discussions, I think it comes down to what you mean by "nihilist". He certainly thought that the end of traditional Christian values was a good thing, which is why many people call him a nihilist. That's not to say he believed in "nothing", Big Lebowski style, though.
    - steveklabnik 12y ago
      Vocabulary is so hard. :/ Yes, you're totally correct, though.

Bulkington 12y ago

Irony is an exercise in cleverness. I can speak only about US pop culture, but to consider Stewart and Colbert, clever and amusing as they are, in the avant garde of political thought is scary. Facile isn't wise, and for some reason wisdom is now (maybe always?) deemed boring. Too much television, too much Web distraction. Turn it all off. Twitter, Facebook, football, futbol, campaign ads, dot dot dot. Give me something useful: The Weather Channel and porn, in moderation. It's difficult to think deeply about complex issues. And arguably meaningless. Still... Jeez, I'm a codger. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Irony is a sedative. Absurdity requires revolt. Pass the bong. One more hit before I study for finals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus EDIT: Not unusually, I popped off before reading the post. I'm not a DFW fanboy, but I've found everything of his I've ever read to be substantial. Very substantial. He dared.

dfc 12y ago
> Not unusually, I popped off before reading the post. Does "popped off" mean that you did not read the linked article and merely used the title as a cue for a freeform writing exercise? And this is not an unusual thing for you to do while browsing HN?
- Bulkington 12y ago
  "Shit... charging a man with murder in this place was like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500. I took the mission. What the hell else was I gonna do?" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes

jccalhoun 12y ago

These kids these days! Why back in my day...!

joefkelley 12y ago

For a great counter-argument, see: http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977 http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

austrapolith 12y ago

"But David Foster Wallace predicted a hopeful turn. He could see a new wave of artistic rebels who 'might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels… who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles… Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue.' " Call me naive but I've thought about this before -- that this oversaturation of irony and the mainstreaming of 20th century-style rebellion could very soon have a backlash in the form of the rise of some kind of fascistic movement among young people.

leephillips 12y ago

I have to admit I only made it about half way through this, by which time it seemed to me that the authors had little more grasp of the concept of irony than Alanis Morissette. Irony is neither cynicism nor snark. It is an indispensable aspect of most forms of written expression; it is almost impossible to write a successful work of opinion or fiction of any length without mastering this classical tool of rhetoric. Where would Shakespeare be without irony? And what of the ancient Greeks? It's not modern, it is a connection with our heritage.

literalusername 12y ago
By "irony", I'm pretty sure they mean "sarcasm". It seems increasingly common for people to confuse the two.
- leephillips 12y ago
  But sarcasm is a form of irony: its lowest and crudest, the first one we learn when we're brats in elementary school. I'm pretty sure they have it confused with snark and cynicism, because they use these terms while parading their confusion pretty baldly. They're also talking about something like a dread of sincerity as part of one's lifestyle, I think. Real things in some circles, I don't doubt, but not the same as irony. And nothing to do with my life or the people I talk to. (I don't watch much TV, but I thought Seinfeld was brilliant. Oddly, I think part of its technique had to do with a distinct lack of irony, in making things unusually literal.)
- dvanduzer 12y ago
  So common, in fact, that this joke was masterfully made nearly 15 years ago: http://pastebin.com/8hLsNWrY http://pastebin.com/8hLsNWrY edit: I mean the joke about Alanis Morrisette.
zwegner 12y ago
Huh? Alanis Morissette is a master of irony. She wrote an entire song about irony that doesn't contain a single ironic situation. It's so thick you can taste it.
12y ago

thrownaway2424 12y ago

Is the font absolutely gigantic for any one else? I get 3 lines per screen on mobile chrome.

tsm 12y ago
Yes. If I pinched out it would turn into a normal size, wait a second, and then return to being terrible. I couldn't get through more than a paragraph because of this.

dfc 12y ago

It is remarkable how diluted the word irony has become. More often than not it seems that people think "irony" is serendipity's evil twin. The definition of "random" has also suffered a similar impotence by pervasiveness. It is not uncommon to hear casual conversations where the words random and ironic are used interchangeably. The next word on the semantic extinction watchlist is literally. If you ask google for the definition of literally you are presented with two senses of the word: 1: in a literal manner or sense; exactly. informal: used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true. Sooner than later "informal" will be replaced with "2." and literally will literally mean not literally.

pash 12y ago
Where did the phrase "serendipity's evil twin" come from? 9 results: https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22serendipity%27s+evil+twin%22&oq=%22serendipity%27s+evil+twin%22 https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22serendipity%27s+evil+twi...
- dfc 12y ago
  This is just my observation of the current definition of the word. I do not know if I unwittingly stole it from someone. I did not see this result in the list of google hits: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082
  - pash 12y ago
    It's a striking phrase, but not quite right. ... If you can recognize the way in which it is not quite right, I think you will have recognized the genius of the attempt.
    - dfc 12y ago
      I do not understand how my opinion can be judged "not quite right"? This is my impression of the concept people seem to have in mind when they use the word irony. I am not saying this is the definition of irony. "From what I can tell most people's definition is something between 'serendipity's evil twin' and 'partially related.'" --dfc[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6786082

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

vixin 12y ago

I may be wrong but somehow I don't think creators/artists read social comment like this and say to themselves "Gosh, he's absolutely right, from now on I'll give irony a miss and head off in a new direction". If they do then I would guess they're pretty derivative and unlikely to produce work deemed to be outstandingly original.