5 ms·

What shocked me when I used to do the soup van run in my local city was how age didn't discriminate when it came to homelessnes. I saw men (and boys) across the

by cup 12y ago

What shocked me when I used to do the soup van run in my local city was how age didn't discriminate when it came to homelessnes. I saw men (and boys) across the whole age range living in unnacceptable situations. Some of them could have been my friends for all I know as they did their best to hide their homelessness. Furthermore, I was always perplexed as to why there were far more homeless males than females. While my local government provides a number of shelters for men and women, there was never enough room for men. We would frequently scout the local homeless haunts (under bridgers, besides powerstations or in church car parks) looking for people who might need some supper. In this day and age It's pretty disagraceful in my view. I've always thought it would be nice if someone could come up with a kickstarer/kiva like hybrid where you could sponsor local homeless people with enough money to find accomodation and medical/psychological assistance.

firstOrder 12y ago
> it would be nice if...you could sponsor homeless people with enough money to find accomodation and medical/psychological assistance You're presuming that our society and economy isn't designed to purposefully try to get a certain percentage of people into this situation. If someone theoretically entertains the possibility that this is the case ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour ), then that would be like building sand castles on the shore during low tide. Actually you don't have to go back to the 19th century to read about this. Read what mainstream economists openly say about NAIRU, or what Business Week and the Wall Street Journal were openly saying when the unemployment rate went below 4% in early 2000. They were pretty much calling for higher unemployment rates - as much as you can get away with in this society any way.
Crake 12y ago
Women have an easier time finding somewhere to stay because they are considered more valuable to society. Men are disposable, which is why far fewer resources are devoted to helping them. Women also can just get a boyfriend if they lose their job or health and need money; I've seen my female friends do this loads of times, but have yet to see it go the other way. Gender roles definitely favor women pretty heavily when it comes to financial matters.
- Mz 12y ago
  I have upvoted you. It is true that a woman can just "get a boyfriend" -- aka politely whore herself out -- and I have seen it done as a means to get off the street. And it is true that there are generally fewer resources for homeless men. But gender rolls do not "favor women pretty heavily when it comes to financial matters". Nor are women "more valuable" to society. Men get freedom that women tend to lack. With freedom, there is freedom to fail. Men tend to aggregate towards the extremes -- they both take up more of the CEO roles and are more commonly seen on the street. Women get more "average" lives in part because they have less freedom. Women often are protected from homelessness per se not because anyone values them but because they have custody of and responsibility for dependent children and no one wants to see children on the street. So the parent who has custody gets taken in by family along with the child or services intended to benefit the child also benefit the custodial parent. This is not about valuing women more. It is just not.
- llllllllllll 12y ago
  I think the reality is that women are more able to scrape by via prostitution. Gender roles definitely favor women pretty heavily when it comes to financial matters. Every study I've seen shows that women are paid less in than men in equivalent positions. I'm having a hard time reconciling anything in your post with reality.
  - Crake 12y ago
    >prostitution I think most couples would be pretty offended if you called the girlfriend a prostitute for letting their boyfriend financially support them. >Every study I've seen shows that women are paid less in than men in equivalent positions. Women are paid the same as men in studies that control for other variables. I recommend you stop reading "studies" that don't control for things like hours worked and choice of career field. http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20... In fact, single childless women now make more than men in most US metropolitan areas: "Young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively." (http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274...)
Reedx 12y ago
It's interesting to think about why there are vastly more homeless men than women. For one thing, men take more risks. They are more likely to reach the top of the ladder, but also more likely to fall to the very bottom. Women and children first. Society takes better care of women. This is deeply ingrained because they are more valuable for the survival our species. Not so relevant anymore, but it was for most of human history.
- egillie 12y ago
  Girls and women are also a lot more vulnerable on the streets -- I met a 17-year-old who was routinely assaulted when she slept outside, who eventually took up sex work for the stable shelter.
  - Reedx 12y ago
    Yeah - that's definitely another factor. Men are also statistically more likely to become drug addicts. Not sure what the downvotes are about. I don't think it's controversial that these are some of the reasons why there are a lot more homeless men than women.
    - Mz 12y ago
      Maybe because society doesn't really "take better care of women"? It tends to take care of women somewhat indirectly in that women are often custodial parents and society worries about the children. But it really mostly does a sucky job of looking out for women. Granted, men don't necessarily have it "better," they just have a different distribution of pain. I think as a society we have a lot of room for improvement in the "taking care of people" department.
Mz 12y ago
Furthermore, I was always perplexed as to why there were far more homeless males than females. There are lots of factors. Women are more afraid of homelessness, in part because being raped is a very real risk. So they are more likely to make compromises a man would not make in order to remain off the street. Women are more likely to be members of "the hidden homeless" -- unable to support themselves but sleeping on a couch somewhere or doubled up with family. On the flipside, male privilege is not rooted in having a penis. It is rooted in fulfilling the male role of breadwinner. Men who can't do that tend to not find other options that are often available to women. This is partly gender based prejudice -- we are more likely to feel a man should just get a job, no matter how bad his health or whatever -- but it is partly rooted in the fact that men frequently have expectations of male privilege even if they haven't earned it. So men seem to often fail at making themselves valuable enough to put up with if they have no job. This is not an off the cuff remark. It's a topic I have studied and thought a lot about over the years. My sons are valuable contributing members of my household without ever having had a job. They took over the "women's work" so I could focus on my corporate job and they take care of me so I can get well when doctor's basically wrote me off for dead. So I need my sons, even though they do not make money. A lot of men are terrible at taking care of other people and a lot of women find that when they are willing to work and support a boyfriend or husband, she still comes home and does most of the housework and cooking. He winds up basically mooching off of her. I am sure there are lots of others but that is some of the stuff that comes immediately to mind. I have had a class on "Homelessness and Public Policy." So it is something I have studied formally, not just read up on.

by cup 12y ago

firstOrder 12y ago

> it would be nice if...you could sponsor homeless people with enough money to find accomodation and medical/psychological assistance You're presuming that our society and economy isn't designed to purposefully try to get a certain percentage of people into this situation. If someone theoretically entertains the possibility that this is the case ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour ), then that would be like building sand castles on the shore during low tide. Actually you don't have to go back to the 19th century to read about this. Read what mainstream economists openly say about NAIRU, or what Business Week and the Wall Street Journal were openly saying when the unemployment rate went below 4% in early 2000. They were pretty much calling for higher unemployment rates - as much as you can get away with in this society any way.

Crake 12y ago

Women have an easier time finding somewhere to stay because they are considered more valuable to society. Men are disposable, which is why far fewer resources are devoted to helping them. Women also can just get a boyfriend if they lose their job or health and need money; I've seen my female friends do this loads of times, but have yet to see it go the other way. Gender roles definitely favor women pretty heavily when it comes to financial matters.

Mz 12y ago
I have upvoted you. It is true that a woman can just "get a boyfriend" -- aka politely whore herself out -- and I have seen it done as a means to get off the street. And it is true that there are generally fewer resources for homeless men. But gender rolls do not "favor women pretty heavily when it comes to financial matters". Nor are women "more valuable" to society. Men get freedom that women tend to lack. With freedom, there is freedom to fail. Men tend to aggregate towards the extremes -- they both take up more of the CEO roles and are more commonly seen on the street. Women get more "average" lives in part because they have less freedom. Women often are protected from homelessness per se not because anyone values them but because they have custody of and responsibility for dependent children and no one wants to see children on the street. So the parent who has custody gets taken in by family along with the child or services intended to benefit the child also benefit the custodial parent. This is not about valuing women more. It is just not.
llllllllllll 12y ago
I think the reality is that women are more able to scrape by via prostitution. Gender roles definitely favor women pretty heavily when it comes to financial matters. Every study I've seen shows that women are paid less in than men in equivalent positions. I'm having a hard time reconciling anything in your post with reality.
- Crake 12y ago
  >prostitution I think most couples would be pretty offended if you called the girlfriend a prostitute for letting their boyfriend financially support them. >Every study I've seen shows that women are paid less in than men in equivalent positions. Women are paid the same as men in studies that control for other variables. I recommend you stop reading "studies" that don't control for things like hours worked and choice of career field. http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20... In fact, single childless women now make more than men in most US metropolitan areas: "Young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively." (http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274...)

Reedx 12y ago

It's interesting to think about why there are vastly more homeless men than women. For one thing, men take more risks. They are more likely to reach the top of the ladder, but also more likely to fall to the very bottom. Women and children first. Society takes better care of women. This is deeply ingrained because they are more valuable for the survival our species. Not so relevant anymore, but it was for most of human history.

egillie 12y ago
Girls and women are also a lot more vulnerable on the streets -- I met a 17-year-old who was routinely assaulted when she slept outside, who eventually took up sex work for the stable shelter.
- Reedx 12y ago
  Yeah - that's definitely another factor. Men are also statistically more likely to become drug addicts. Not sure what the downvotes are about. I don't think it's controversial that these are some of the reasons why there are a lot more homeless men than women.
  - Mz 12y ago
    Maybe because society doesn't really "take better care of women"? It tends to take care of women somewhat indirectly in that women are often custodial parents and society worries about the children. But it really mostly does a sucky job of looking out for women. Granted, men don't necessarily have it "better," they just have a different distribution of pain. I think as a society we have a lot of room for improvement in the "taking care of people" department.

Mz 12y ago

Furthermore, I was always perplexed as to why there were far more homeless males than females. There are lots of factors. Women are more afraid of homelessness, in part because being raped is a very real risk. So they are more likely to make compromises a man would not make in order to remain off the street. Women are more likely to be members of "the hidden homeless" -- unable to support themselves but sleeping on a couch somewhere or doubled up with family. On the flipside, male privilege is not rooted in having a penis. It is rooted in fulfilling the male role of breadwinner. Men who can't do that tend to not find other options that are often available to women. This is partly gender based prejudice -- we are more likely to feel a man should just get a job, no matter how bad his health or whatever -- but it is partly rooted in the fact that men frequently have expectations of male privilege even if they haven't earned it. So men seem to often fail at making themselves valuable enough to put up with if they have no job. This is not an off the cuff remark. It's a topic I have studied and thought a lot about over the years. My sons are valuable contributing members of my household without ever having had a job. They took over the "women's work" so I could focus on my corporate job and they take care of me so I can get well when doctor's basically wrote me off for dead. So I need my sons, even though they do not make money. A lot of men are terrible at taking care of other people and a lot of women find that when they are willing to work and support a boyfriend or husband, she still comes home and does most of the housework and cooking. He winds up basically mooching off of her. I am sure there are lots of others but that is some of the stuff that comes immediately to mind. I have had a class on "Homelessness and Public Policy." So it is something I have studied formally, not just read up on.