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Not adding to a sensible discussion perhaps, but I'm convinced that bullying is the result of inaction by parents and teachers/schools. Merely standing by and l

Not adding to a sensible discussion perhaps, but I'm convinced that bullying is the result of inaction by parents and teachers/schools. Merely standing by and letting it happen is the worst thing you can do to your children. As a dad with young kids, I can assure you that if this were to happen to them, I'd wage all-out cyberwar, on the kids and any parents that didn't properly curtail their child's behavior after official notifications. From doxing and redialing faxes to bully-vision youtube channels naming and shaming their family. It isn't slander if it's true… I've made it 100% clear to my kids that I've got their backs. It's my duty as a dad. Edit: Yes, this story obviously struck a nerve for me. I was bullied as a 12yo kid for a few months. I was a good kid, and did well in school, which made me the outlier. I remember how terrified I was when the bell rang at the end of the school day, knowing that the pests would be waiting for me on the way home. I also vividly remember the day my dad took me aside and simply said: "Go ahead. You have my permission to make them feel sorry. I have your back. Just don't do it on school property." The day I took action was a truly glorious and empowering day. Hearing my dad tell their parents afterwards they had it coming, supported by some photographic proof of damage caused in the past, was even better. Upside: nobody ever bothered me again. This happened a long time ago, and not in the litigious USA where money and lawsuits get off every bullying 'precious snowflake', yet I'm certain I'd take that risk today, if official channels failed to ensure the (mental) well-being of my children.

sillysaurus3 12y ago
As a dad with young kids, I can assure you that if this were to happen to them, I'd wage all-out cyberwar, on the kids and any parents that didn't properly curtail their child's behavior after official notifications. From doxing and redialing faxes to bully-vision youtube channels naming and shaming their family. You will make your child's school life more of a hell than it already is.
- voicereasonish 12y ago
  I think you have to judge each case on its merits. The sure fire way to beat a bully though is to stand up to them and let them know that what ever they throw at you, you'll throw twice as much back. They will not win. Some bullying stops if you just ignore it and make it "not fun anymore" for the bully. But it all depends on the individual circumstances.
  - agentultra 12y ago
    The hilarious things kids have discovered is that bullying in groups is even more fun. Fighting back just makes it funnier. Laughing and participating means being in on the joke and out of the spotlight. Standing up may be the worst thing you can do.
    - notlisted 12y ago
      So you propose "to ignore them and it will go away?" I tried that once. No dice. Only a disproportional reaction solves the issue, once and for all. Shock and awe. I suspect cognivore agrees, and perhaps even kjackson (self-described former bully)
      - agentultra 12y ago
        As I said in my other comment, I don't really have answers to how to solve it. I just know that from my experience I ended up knocked out and hospitalized with a fracture in my skull from having my head kicked in by a group of teenagers. A friend of mine was jumped and beaten into a coma for six months. I've read about kids in the newspapers stabbed to death, gang raped while passed out, and worse. I don't think any amount of rage you can throw at the situation will make it better for you if you're being bullied by more than one person. "Standing up," may work in some scenarios but in those which the OP and I are familiar with it's pointless at best and dangerous at worst. Update All I did was skip school and show up for tests. Maybe leaving is the only option for some kids.
        notlisted 12y ago
        Internet Hug
        verisimilidude 12y ago
        As the parent said, it needs to be a disproportional response. I mean REALLY out of line. One time a friend of mine got jumped by six dudes. He was able to defend himself by taking a pencil out of his pocket and jamming it right into an eye socket. The other kid literally lost his eye. The fighting immediately stopped and nobody messed with my friend again. That's what it takes.
- cognivore 12y ago
  No, not true. The parents of bullies are usually bullies themselves. The solution is to draw a hard line and say, I will take this so far you won't want to go where it ends up. When I was a kid I got pushed so far that one day, when a bully stole my stocking cap for the 50th time and was going to dunk it in a cold puddle along the curbside I ran up and pushed him into the busy street's moving traffic. He was totally shocked - at that moment he realized I would now do anything to stop him. He never touched me from that day forward.
- notlisted 12y ago
  Hmmmm. Bullies pick on the weak/inactive/defenseless. Key is to nip it in the bud, swiftly and vigorously. Don't allow it to fester. Bottom line: I want my kids to know they can come to me and I will take action, immediately, so they never have to feel alone. PS The writer seemed half-hearted in dealing with the bullies [I didn't want them to get arrested, I just wanted them to stop]. That was a major mistake. No repercussions so more bullies pile on.
  - ishansharma 12y ago
    >> The writer seemed half-hearted in dealing with the bullies [I didn't want them to get arrested, I just wanted them to stop] This may be based in the fact that we are taught from childhood that we should forgive and be good. And many of us take it seriously. I "let it go" bullying for too long, though in my case, it wasn't this serious!
    - hga 12y ago
      I guess I was fortunate that I was taught forgiveness without genuine repentance on the other side is pointless, and generally not something to do. Catholic doctrine, if I remember correctly.
      - Jtsummers 12y ago
        > I guess I was fortunate that I was taught forgiveness without genuine repentance on the other side is pointless, and generally not something to do. > Catholic doctrine, if I remember correctly. ?!?! That's not Catholic doctrine at all. Not that it's well practiced, but Catholics are taught to forgive, period. That doesn't mean forget. Trust, once lost, can be hard to earn back depending on how it was lost. Someone who beats you up can be forgiven, and you can still go out of your way to avoid them or to never let them stand behind you.
        hga 12y ago
        Ah, yes, as you're applying it, I think that's correct. I was more thinking in the confessional, where you must truly repent for your sins to be forgiven. Which is not what's applied to daily life.
voicereasonish 12y ago
I agree... IMHO, parents should be legally responsible for the behaviour of their children. That is, if their child harasses someone, the parents should be prosecuted for harassment. If their child steals, prosecute the parent. The majority of parents are good, and instil a good sense of morals into their children, but there's always those parents that either do not care, or decide to make their children rude evil little things.
- gress 12y ago
  The logical outcome of that approach is that all parents remove their children from school, because otherwise they risk being held responsible for behavior over which they cannot have any control over. This might not be such a bad thing. Edit: Downvoters? Consider a minority family. Think how easy it would be to goad of otherwise trick a child into doing something that could be legally actionable. Think about the already racially biased access to justice. This would be a recipe for disaster.
  - winter_blue 12y ago
    Truancy is illegal, and homeschooling is not an option in many Western countries. So these parents will not be able to take their kids out of school...
    - gress 12y ago
      So if you make parents legally liable for kids actions and then take the kids to an environment where the parents have no control or visibility, you are creating a nightmare of oppression. That's why there is a legal term 'in loco parentis' which is applied to schools.
      - winter_blue 12y ago
        If "in loco parentis" means schools taking the role of parents, then they've certainly done a bad job of taking care of their "kids", at least in the United States...
cognivore 12y ago
>> As a dad with young kids, I can assure you that if this were to happen to them, I'd wage all-out cyberwar, on the kids and any parents that didn't properly curtail their child's behavior after official notifications. << Uh, cyberwar? No. This happened once to my one of my sons. I found out who the parents where (divorced, different locations) drove to both their houses, and said, "If your kid doesn't stop today, you, your kid and your family, are not safe outside this door. I never said this." I put on my best pycho face. Truly, I was psycho, so it didn't take much. It stopped. I was the target of intense intense bullying as a kid. Affected me my whole life until my 30's. No kids of mine was going through that.
- ishansharma 12y ago
  >> I found out who the parents where (divorced, different locations) drove to both their houses, and said, "If your kid doesn't stop today, you, your kid and your family, are not safe outside this door. I never said this." I put on my best pycho face. Truly, I was psycho, so it didn't take much. This was one great way to deal with it. Though I can't stop thinking about the legal issues this could've caused. Bullying in school by kids is one thing but going out there and threatning someone is completely another ball. What if they had recorded it somehow and complained? I say this as someone who's in early twenties and have dealt with bullying in school for 4-5 years.
  - cognivore 12y ago
    >> What if they had recorded it somehow and complained? << I couldn't imagine someone being ready to record a conversation in the first 15 second of them opening their front door. It's a matter of judgement, to be sure. I have a spotless police record. Both of these parents do not (and the father's was violent in nature). As another replier here noted "restraining order." I would have enjoyed a legal battle with these parents, as they have not near the resources to draw on as I. I also had evidence against their child in the form of notes and drawing that were violent and threatening in nature. If that had of been some other type of parent, I'd maybe had done it differently. But with these people, that's what worked.
scrabble 12y ago
As a parent, I'm afraid that I wouldn't know if my kid was bullying people at school. She'd never come home and tell me about the bullying she did. But you better believe that as soon as a concerned parent, teacher, or child told me about it there would be hell to pay for my kid. I jump to blaming the kid before I blame the parents. Sure, we are responsible for raising our children, but there comes a time when they are away from us and we don't always get the full story about what is going on when we're not there to see.
- gress 12y ago
  If you generally jump to blaming your daughter by default, it makes sense that she wouldn't tell you openly about what is happening for her.
  - notlisted 12y ago
    I think you misread that comment. She stated that her kid would not tell her that she IS bullying (not BEING bullied).
    - gress 12y ago
      No, I didn't misread it. I am pointing out that if kids expect to be blamed for things by default, then they will learn not to disclose them. It is the adults who have the power to create an an environment of trust. Not the kids. Consider that it is possible to be both bullied and a bully at the same time, and that while bullying is a terrible behavior that cannot be condoned, a bully may not want to be a bully and may need help to stop other than simply being blamed.
      - andrew_gardener 12y ago
        Do you really think a child is ever going to tell any (responsible) parent that they just beat up another kid for fun today and ask for a high five? I don't think I've ever encountered, in real life or media, a child coming clean with their parents about harassing and hurting other people without some outside pressure (aka other parents or the school getting involved)

sillysaurus3 12y ago

As a dad with young kids, I can assure you that if this were to happen to them, I'd wage all-out cyberwar, on the kids and any parents that didn't properly curtail their child's behavior after official notifications. From doxing and redialing faxes to bully-vision youtube channels naming and shaming their family. You will make your child's school life more of a hell than it already is.

voicereasonish 12y ago
I think you have to judge each case on its merits. The sure fire way to beat a bully though is to stand up to them and let them know that what ever they throw at you, you'll throw twice as much back. They will not win. Some bullying stops if you just ignore it and make it "not fun anymore" for the bully. But it all depends on the individual circumstances.
- agentultra 12y ago
  The hilarious things kids have discovered is that bullying in groups is even more fun. Fighting back just makes it funnier. Laughing and participating means being in on the joke and out of the spotlight. Standing up may be the worst thing you can do.
  - notlisted 12y ago
    So you propose "to ignore them and it will go away?" I tried that once. No dice. Only a disproportional reaction solves the issue, once and for all. Shock and awe. I suspect cognivore agrees, and perhaps even kjackson (self-described former bully)
    - agentultra 12y ago
      As I said in my other comment, I don't really have answers to how to solve it. I just know that from my experience I ended up knocked out and hospitalized with a fracture in my skull from having my head kicked in by a group of teenagers. A friend of mine was jumped and beaten into a coma for six months. I've read about kids in the newspapers stabbed to death, gang raped while passed out, and worse. I don't think any amount of rage you can throw at the situation will make it better for you if you're being bullied by more than one person. "Standing up," may work in some scenarios but in those which the OP and I are familiar with it's pointless at best and dangerous at worst. Update All I did was skip school and show up for tests. Maybe leaving is the only option for some kids.
      - notlisted 12y ago
        Internet Hug
      - verisimilidude 12y ago
        As the parent said, it needs to be a disproportional response. I mean REALLY out of line. One time a friend of mine got jumped by six dudes. He was able to defend himself by taking a pencil out of his pocket and jamming it right into an eye socket. The other kid literally lost his eye. The fighting immediately stopped and nobody messed with my friend again. That's what it takes.
cognivore 12y ago
No, not true. The parents of bullies are usually bullies themselves. The solution is to draw a hard line and say, I will take this so far you won't want to go where it ends up. When I was a kid I got pushed so far that one day, when a bully stole my stocking cap for the 50th time and was going to dunk it in a cold puddle along the curbside I ran up and pushed him into the busy street's moving traffic. He was totally shocked - at that moment he realized I would now do anything to stop him. He never touched me from that day forward.
notlisted 12y ago
Hmmmm. Bullies pick on the weak/inactive/defenseless. Key is to nip it in the bud, swiftly and vigorously. Don't allow it to fester. Bottom line: I want my kids to know they can come to me and I will take action, immediately, so they never have to feel alone. PS The writer seemed half-hearted in dealing with the bullies [I didn't want them to get arrested, I just wanted them to stop]. That was a major mistake. No repercussions so more bullies pile on.
- ishansharma 12y ago
  >> The writer seemed half-hearted in dealing with the bullies [I didn't want them to get arrested, I just wanted them to stop] This may be based in the fact that we are taught from childhood that we should forgive and be good. And many of us take it seriously. I "let it go" bullying for too long, though in my case, it wasn't this serious!
  - hga 12y ago
    I guess I was fortunate that I was taught forgiveness without genuine repentance on the other side is pointless, and generally not something to do. Catholic doctrine, if I remember correctly.
    - Jtsummers 12y ago
      > I guess I was fortunate that I was taught forgiveness without genuine repentance on the other side is pointless, and generally not something to do. > Catholic doctrine, if I remember correctly. ?!?! That's not Catholic doctrine at all. Not that it's well practiced, but Catholics are taught to forgive, period. That doesn't mean forget. Trust, once lost, can be hard to earn back depending on how it was lost. Someone who beats you up can be forgiven, and you can still go out of your way to avoid them or to never let them stand behind you.
      - hga 12y ago
        Ah, yes, as you're applying it, I think that's correct. I was more thinking in the confessional, where you must truly repent for your sins to be forgiven. Which is not what's applied to daily life.

voicereasonish 12y ago

I agree... IMHO, parents should be legally responsible for the behaviour of their children. That is, if their child harasses someone, the parents should be prosecuted for harassment. If their child steals, prosecute the parent. The majority of parents are good, and instil a good sense of morals into their children, but there's always those parents that either do not care, or decide to make their children rude evil little things.

gress 12y ago
The logical outcome of that approach is that all parents remove their children from school, because otherwise they risk being held responsible for behavior over which they cannot have any control over. This might not be such a bad thing. Edit: Downvoters? Consider a minority family. Think how easy it would be to goad of otherwise trick a child into doing something that could be legally actionable. Think about the already racially biased access to justice. This would be a recipe for disaster.
- winter_blue 12y ago
  Truancy is illegal, and homeschooling is not an option in many Western countries. So these parents will not be able to take their kids out of school...
  - gress 12y ago
    So if you make parents legally liable for kids actions and then take the kids to an environment where the parents have no control or visibility, you are creating a nightmare of oppression. That's why there is a legal term 'in loco parentis' which is applied to schools.
    - winter_blue 12y ago
      If "in loco parentis" means schools taking the role of parents, then they've certainly done a bad job of taking care of their "kids", at least in the United States...

cognivore 12y ago

>> As a dad with young kids, I can assure you that if this were to happen to them, I'd wage all-out cyberwar, on the kids and any parents that didn't properly curtail their child's behavior after official notifications. << Uh, cyberwar? No. This happened once to my one of my sons. I found out who the parents where (divorced, different locations) drove to both their houses, and said, "If your kid doesn't stop today, you, your kid and your family, are not safe outside this door. I never said this." I put on my best pycho face. Truly, I was psycho, so it didn't take much. It stopped. I was the target of intense intense bullying as a kid. Affected me my whole life until my 30's. No kids of mine was going through that.

ishansharma 12y ago
>> I found out who the parents where (divorced, different locations) drove to both their houses, and said, "If your kid doesn't stop today, you, your kid and your family, are not safe outside this door. I never said this." I put on my best pycho face. Truly, I was psycho, so it didn't take much. This was one great way to deal with it. Though I can't stop thinking about the legal issues this could've caused. Bullying in school by kids is one thing but going out there and threatning someone is completely another ball. What if they had recorded it somehow and complained? I say this as someone who's in early twenties and have dealt with bullying in school for 4-5 years.
- cognivore 12y ago
  >> What if they had recorded it somehow and complained? << I couldn't imagine someone being ready to record a conversation in the first 15 second of them opening their front door. It's a matter of judgement, to be sure. I have a spotless police record. Both of these parents do not (and the father's was violent in nature). As another replier here noted "restraining order." I would have enjoyed a legal battle with these parents, as they have not near the resources to draw on as I. I also had evidence against their child in the form of notes and drawing that were violent and threatening in nature. If that had of been some other type of parent, I'd maybe had done it differently. But with these people, that's what worked.

scrabble 12y ago

As a parent, I'm afraid that I wouldn't know if my kid was bullying people at school. She'd never come home and tell me about the bullying she did. But you better believe that as soon as a concerned parent, teacher, or child told me about it there would be hell to pay for my kid. I jump to blaming the kid before I blame the parents. Sure, we are responsible for raising our children, but there comes a time when they are away from us and we don't always get the full story about what is going on when we're not there to see.

gress 12y ago
If you generally jump to blaming your daughter by default, it makes sense that she wouldn't tell you openly about what is happening for her.
- notlisted 12y ago
  I think you misread that comment. She stated that her kid would not tell her that she IS bullying (not BEING bullied).
  - gress 12y ago
    No, I didn't misread it. I am pointing out that if kids expect to be blamed for things by default, then they will learn not to disclose them. It is the adults who have the power to create an an environment of trust. Not the kids. Consider that it is possible to be both bullied and a bully at the same time, and that while bullying is a terrible behavior that cannot be condoned, a bully may not want to be a bully and may need help to stop other than simply being blamed.
    - andrew_gardener 12y ago
      Do you really think a child is ever going to tell any (responsible) parent that they just beat up another kid for fun today and ask for a high five? I don't think I've ever encountered, in real life or media, a child coming clean with their parents about harassing and hurting other people without some outside pressure (aka other parents or the school getting involved)