7 ms·

I've said this in the corresponding reddit threads in /r/beer and /r/homebrewing, but I've met Jim Koch on multiple occasions in multiple settings, and I've nev

I've said this in the corresponding reddit threads in /r/beer and /r/homebrewing, but I've met Jim Koch on multiple occasions in multiple settings, and I've never seen him not hammered. He's a functioning alcoholic, not a magician. He is, however, brilliant. He gets beer and marketing beer better than anybody else I've ever met.

moron4hire 12y ago
I think that's the key thing. If you don't know what true alcoholism looks like, it can be easy to miss the signs.
- JackFr 12y ago
  I think drinking nothing but beer all the time is a pretty obvious sign. Unless you're the most famous brewer in the world -- then I suppose it might be easy to miss that sign.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    Yeah, coming up with tricks to "not get drunk", or searching for cheap booze deals, or anything that is really just out of the way burdensome for the sake of nothing more than "more drink". I don't buy cheap beer, ever. Not even if I'm asked to get a case for a party. If I'm going to drink, I want something I'll enjoy. Cheap beer is about getting a buzz or getting drunk. It always freaks people out, "you shouldn't have spent so much for a party". Why? I don't see it as a choice. Should I have only opened a can of kidney beans for the dish I brought, too? No, I want to have something that I will enjoy, that others can enjoy, too. It's not just about "filling ourselves to the gills on as little money as possible." But that is how people treat beer. That's not to say I don't get drunk sometimes. The experience of sitting in an innertube on a lazy river is significantly enhanced by alcohol. A wedding party is significantly enhanced by copious alchol. But most days I want to be productive and make things. I can't code or write well--and certainly can't solder at all--when I'm drunk. I similarly don't watch a lot of television, or read a lot of books. I'd like to fill my time with more productive tasks than consumptive ones.
    - snide 12y ago
      I agree with your reasoning and preferences, but some of us just like cheap beer for the taste. In Northern California a lot of the breweries focus on hoppy flavors, which I don't prefer. I'll just take a bud. My reasoning? Why pay for expensive beer! A bud tastes fine.
      - kbenson 12y ago
        In years past, when I went out to bars a lot, I had a few classes of drinks I would buy, depending on my purpose for the night. If I intended to drive home a few hours later after playing some pool, I would just order Bud Light. I was able to drink for the social aspect, it quenched any thirst I had, and at a slow pace because I was playing a lot of pool, it didn't end up intoxicating me all that much. If I didn't have to worry about my ride at all, I would order a more flavorful beer. I also find cheap American beer to be ideal for the beach.
      - JTon 12y ago
        >I'll just take a bud. My reasoning? Why pay for expensive beer! A bud tastes fine Can't help but read your reply in a thick southern accent. Personally, if I'm aiming for an aggressive, high volume night, I'll take a busch over a bud.
      - edavison1 12y ago
        Wasn't expecting this in the comments, but super appreciated. The hops arms race must end. I hope we will all go back to drinking delicious, sessionable lagers soon and realize the IPA/microbrew snobbery mindset so prevalent today is a big mistake, both socially (alienating to the uninitiated and highfalutin) and for the beer drinker's palette (overwhelming, masking flavors).
        Bartweiss 12y ago
        For what it's worth, the microbrewery scene doesn't have to be what it is today. At it's best it would just be a huge range of subtly different beers to give people more things to explore and find a favorite. As is, there's this undying devotion to IPAs and ever-hoppier tastes. There's nothing wrong with non-microbrew, but I'd be happiest of all to see microbreweries open up to exploring more of the possibilities for beer.
- thefreeman 12y ago
  If you know what true alcoholism looks like you should know that the term "functioning alcoholic" is a false dichotomy.
  - endersshadow 12y ago
    I'm not sure you know what a dichotomy is, but alcoholics span the range from functioning to absolutely crippled, and everywhere in between. Alcoholism is a dependence on and addiction to alcohol. No more, no less. Jim Koch is able to function fairly well as an alcoholic that many people wouldn't be able to because of the industry he's in. And as to your other comment, unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with alcoholism and its many forms. There's no such thing as "true alcoholism," there's just addiction.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - skittles 12y ago
    I have 2 counter examples. My wife's step father would come home from his sales job and drink glass after glass of whiskey and coke. Each was about 15 ounces of whiskey with 1 ounce of coke to give it color (trying to hide how much he drinks). He's a good provider and only a little emotionally abusive to his family. The other example is the woman my wife works with. She is a contract-medical coder that is faster and better than anyone else in the company. She also drinks a bottle of wine with the meal she doesn't eat every night. She is the best employee my wife has as long as she's not in the hospital for electrolyte imbalance.
  - afarrell 12y ago
    Is an alcoholic who has been in recovery for 15 years still an alcoholic? My friend identifies as such.
thefreeman 12y ago
I don't think you know what a real alcoholic looks like. Edit: Alcoholism isn't just drinking alcohol all of the time. It is a life threatening and often fatal disease. True alcoholics destroy their lives and the lives of everyone around them. So downvote me all you want but people who have no experience with the powers of addiction should keep their petty labeling to themself. The OP is making a blanket statement about a man he has apparently met a few times, and even states that he goes around to various other forums stating the same thing. In my opinion that is extremely rude.
- atwebb 12y ago
  I don't know if you're being snarky or trolling or what but alcoholism comes in many forms. Please don't diminish the situation people are in just because they do their job well.
  - thefreeman 12y ago
    Just because he drinks a lot (note that this is also part of his profession) doesn't make him an alcoholic. People love to toss the term around lightly. If you've ever lived with a true alcoholic then you know it's not something to be joked about and it is a life threatening disease. How would you feel if everyone in this thread was non-chalantly calling John Koch a junkie.
    - Confusion 12y ago
      it's not something to be joked about And there is your problem. You think others must be 'joking' when they call someone an alcoholic while that person isn't obviously destroying his life. You are wrong. News flash: the fact that you know worse cases doesn't mean the less severe cases aren't bad and it doesn't mean that people calling out those cases are joking. Grandparent was saying Jim Koch is drinking in a way that has severe negative consequences for his long-term health. There are a whole lot of people that are indeed functioning alcoholics: they don't drink themselves into a stupor, but they are constantly buzzed, which has long-term health consequences and impacts their effective personality and behavior in (usually) a bad way.
mathattack 12y ago
By making Sam Adams a national brand, he paved the way for every craft brewer in America. Hard to imagine that he's not an alcoholic.
- raverbashing 12y ago
  So now, brewer == alcoholic?
  - mathattack 12y ago
    I'm sorry - two disconnected thoughts typed too quickly. He is a pioneering brewer, but based on some of the stories about him drinking so much every night it's hard to imagine him not being an alcoholic.
andor436 12y ago
That's funny, I stopped in to say the same thing. At an "extreme" (high gravity) beer festival in Boston a few years ago he was more intoxicated than my wife and I, and yet managed to make perfect sense. (Maybe I was just too drunk to tell the difference?)

moron4hire 12y ago

I think that's the key thing. If you don't know what true alcoholism looks like, it can be easy to miss the signs.

JackFr 12y ago
I think drinking nothing but beer all the time is a pretty obvious sign. Unless you're the most famous brewer in the world -- then I suppose it might be easy to miss that sign.
- moron4hire 12y ago
  Yeah, coming up with tricks to "not get drunk", or searching for cheap booze deals, or anything that is really just out of the way burdensome for the sake of nothing more than "more drink". I don't buy cheap beer, ever. Not even if I'm asked to get a case for a party. If I'm going to drink, I want something I'll enjoy. Cheap beer is about getting a buzz or getting drunk. It always freaks people out, "you shouldn't have spent so much for a party". Why? I don't see it as a choice. Should I have only opened a can of kidney beans for the dish I brought, too? No, I want to have something that I will enjoy, that others can enjoy, too. It's not just about "filling ourselves to the gills on as little money as possible." But that is how people treat beer. That's not to say I don't get drunk sometimes. The experience of sitting in an innertube on a lazy river is significantly enhanced by alcohol. A wedding party is significantly enhanced by copious alchol. But most days I want to be productive and make things. I can't code or write well--and certainly can't solder at all--when I'm drunk. I similarly don't watch a lot of television, or read a lot of books. I'd like to fill my time with more productive tasks than consumptive ones.
  - snide 12y ago
    I agree with your reasoning and preferences, but some of us just like cheap beer for the taste. In Northern California a lot of the breweries focus on hoppy flavors, which I don't prefer. I'll just take a bud. My reasoning? Why pay for expensive beer! A bud tastes fine.
    - kbenson 12y ago
      In years past, when I went out to bars a lot, I had a few classes of drinks I would buy, depending on my purpose for the night. If I intended to drive home a few hours later after playing some pool, I would just order Bud Light. I was able to drink for the social aspect, it quenched any thirst I had, and at a slow pace because I was playing a lot of pool, it didn't end up intoxicating me all that much. If I didn't have to worry about my ride at all, I would order a more flavorful beer. I also find cheap American beer to be ideal for the beach.
    - JTon 12y ago
      >I'll just take a bud. My reasoning? Why pay for expensive beer! A bud tastes fine Can't help but read your reply in a thick southern accent. Personally, if I'm aiming for an aggressive, high volume night, I'll take a busch over a bud.
    - edavison1 12y ago
      Wasn't expecting this in the comments, but super appreciated. The hops arms race must end. I hope we will all go back to drinking delicious, sessionable lagers soon and realize the IPA/microbrew snobbery mindset so prevalent today is a big mistake, both socially (alienating to the uninitiated and highfalutin) and for the beer drinker's palette (overwhelming, masking flavors).
      - Bartweiss 12y ago
        For what it's worth, the microbrewery scene doesn't have to be what it is today. At it's best it would just be a huge range of subtly different beers to give people more things to explore and find a favorite. As is, there's this undying devotion to IPAs and ever-hoppier tastes. There's nothing wrong with non-microbrew, but I'd be happiest of all to see microbreweries open up to exploring more of the possibilities for beer.
thefreeman 12y ago
If you know what true alcoholism looks like you should know that the term "functioning alcoholic" is a false dichotomy.
- endersshadow 12y ago
  I'm not sure you know what a dichotomy is, but alcoholics span the range from functioning to absolutely crippled, and everywhere in between. Alcoholism is a dependence on and addiction to alcohol. No more, no less. Jim Koch is able to function fairly well as an alcoholic that many people wouldn't be able to because of the industry he's in. And as to your other comment, unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with alcoholism and its many forms. There's no such thing as "true alcoholism," there's just addiction.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- skittles 12y ago
  I have 2 counter examples. My wife's step father would come home from his sales job and drink glass after glass of whiskey and coke. Each was about 15 ounces of whiskey with 1 ounce of coke to give it color (trying to hide how much he drinks). He's a good provider and only a little emotionally abusive to his family. The other example is the woman my wife works with. She is a contract-medical coder that is faster and better than anyone else in the company. She also drinks a bottle of wine with the meal she doesn't eat every night. She is the best employee my wife has as long as she's not in the hospital for electrolyte imbalance.
- afarrell 12y ago
  Is an alcoholic who has been in recovery for 15 years still an alcoholic? My friend identifies as such.

thefreeman 12y ago

I don't think you know what a real alcoholic looks like. Edit: Alcoholism isn't just drinking alcohol all of the time. It is a life threatening and often fatal disease. True alcoholics destroy their lives and the lives of everyone around them. So downvote me all you want but people who have no experience with the powers of addiction should keep their petty labeling to themself. The OP is making a blanket statement about a man he has apparently met a few times, and even states that he goes around to various other forums stating the same thing. In my opinion that is extremely rude.

atwebb 12y ago
I don't know if you're being snarky or trolling or what but alcoholism comes in many forms. Please don't diminish the situation people are in just because they do their job well.
- thefreeman 12y ago
  Just because he drinks a lot (note that this is also part of his profession) doesn't make him an alcoholic. People love to toss the term around lightly. If you've ever lived with a true alcoholic then you know it's not something to be joked about and it is a life threatening disease. How would you feel if everyone in this thread was non-chalantly calling John Koch a junkie.
  - Confusion 12y ago
    it's not something to be joked about And there is your problem. You think others must be 'joking' when they call someone an alcoholic while that person isn't obviously destroying his life. You are wrong. News flash: the fact that you know worse cases doesn't mean the less severe cases aren't bad and it doesn't mean that people calling out those cases are joking. Grandparent was saying Jim Koch is drinking in a way that has severe negative consequences for his long-term health. There are a whole lot of people that are indeed functioning alcoholics: they don't drink themselves into a stupor, but they are constantly buzzed, which has long-term health consequences and impacts their effective personality and behavior in (usually) a bad way.

mathattack 12y ago

By making Sam Adams a national brand, he paved the way for every craft brewer in America. Hard to imagine that he's not an alcoholic.

raverbashing 12y ago
So now, brewer == alcoholic?
- mathattack 12y ago
  I'm sorry - two disconnected thoughts typed too quickly. He is a pioneering brewer, but based on some of the stories about him drinking so much every night it's hard to imagine him not being an alcoholic.

andor436 12y ago

That's funny, I stopped in to say the same thing. At an "extreme" (high gravity) beer festival in Boston a few years ago he was more intoxicated than my wife and I, and yet managed to make perfect sense. (Maybe I was just too drunk to tell the difference?)