5 ms·

There is only one thing possible you can do that help in a situation like this. It is to fight back. Throw punches (literally), let them be suspended, arrested,

by onli 13y ago

There is only one thing possible you can do that help in a situation like this. It is to fight back. Throw punches (literally), let them be suspended, arrested, do everything you can do to punish everyone who tries to mess with you that way. You will gain respect, because you have to, even if you sometimes lose a fight - legal or physically. And I know how horribly hard that is while you are under constant attack. And how it feels how it will make only matters worse. One thinks "maybe it will stop if one just tries to fit in a bit more, or be a bit invisible" But it never does. People behaving like this follow animalic instinct, not reason, so the only language they understand is on the same level. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to fight yourself - but hard responses are necessary, and a 2m police man talking angry to a teen is a hard response. Edit: Tried to make it a bit clearer that it is not only about fighting physically.

catshirt 13y ago
i understand the rationale behind "fight back" and in many instances it is probably the right solution. but if 15 people are bullying you and sending you death threats, punching one sounds like the dumbest god damned idea.
- onli 13y ago
  If you get death threats, it is a case for the police anyway, before any cyber bullying laws. And severe enough, like described in the article, for them to act.
  - catshirt 13y ago
    i didn't downvote you but i admit i was probably too dismissive of your post. i see now you were suggesting that punching/suspension/arrest are all different methods for fighting back (some more suitable than others depending on the circumstances).
- Wohui 13y ago
  This needs more votes, simply for reminding people that bullying isn't some generic situation. The least bad case of bullying is when you have a single bully, who can be made to start treating you as a human being without going as far as a fight. The worst case is a group, who chronically hate you for whatever reason. Not every situation in life has a solution, if you have enough enemies.
  - hga 13y ago
    It's really an "it depends" thing. If it applies, oderint dum metuant, "let them hate, so long as they fear". If making a stark object lesson out of one or more of the bullies will prompt all of them to find easier targets, it's an option. Or have your father make credible threats to their families: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7646566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7646566 In other situations, some described in this discussion, that won't work. Although you have to factor in your own psychological health: Ah, yes, I forgot, I was subjected to one group "bullying" incident in college (assault, actually), and I replied with a credible threat of lethal force, was in fact one step from planting a Kabar knife in the gut of the closest adversary, as in that would have happened if he'd moved one step further and finished trying to place his hands on me. He and the group decided there were easier targets. And, sure, they hated me, but they never dared try anything again. And I would have never been able to respect myself if I hadn't stood up to them that night. (A few more details: there was some harassment later that night, busting my door knob by hurdling a shopping cart? into it repeatedly, turning off my power, pretty much pathetic stuff like that. But absolutely none after, except for shunning. And the dorm floor graduate counselor/baby sitter? probably talked to them, perhaps pointing out the consequences of assaulting people. I know he did to me, but it was just to confirm that I wasn't the sort of person to threaten or use lethal force without proper justification.)
arel 13y ago
I've seen this happen too and despite the apprehension of causing a "fuss" the only proper response is to fight back through proper channels and use the laws in place designed to protect you and potential future victims - in the UK there is harassment law, the malicious communications act and court injunctions you can take out. The police tend to take quite a hard line too so don't suffer in silence.
brazzy 13y ago
This is very dangerous advice. You will most likely lose that fight, badly, because you are in the minority. YOU will most likely end up being suspended and arrested, because the bullies have friends who will testify against you, and they're the popular, trustworthy ones. And escalating violence can quickly get to a point where consequences are completely out of proportion especially when you're up against people who "follow animalic instinct" - anything you do that makes them look bad compels them to retalitate in kind. What you need is allies and/or support from authorities.
- onli 13y ago
  > YOU will most likely end up being suspended and arrested Note that I'm not in the USA. That consequence doesn't exist in my country, not if you are provoked. And note that I agree. Allies and Authorities are a good mean of fighting back.
  - brazzy 13y ago
    > That consequence doesn't exist in my country, not if you are provoked. Oh, but there are 5 well-respected pupils who all say that you started that fight without provocation.
    - herokusaki 13y ago
      Valid point. It make me think that perhaps sousveillance isn't a bad idea.
    - hga 13y ago
      Per my above comment, you're missing the point. What's the problem if you started "the fight" (which should be a carefully arranged beat down of your target, nothing resembling a fight)? Your objective is to stop the bullying, not be perceived as an angel (well, except for possibly those terrible Old Testament smiting types).
      - DanBC 13y ago
        The problem is that you get removed from school and given a label of "potentially violent" which will follow you around for a while. Some countries will prosecute youths involved in violence. Even if prosecution is avoided there might be something like the English "caution" where the person accepts their guilt and accepts a caution (which is kept on record) in order to avoid prosecution. This could also follow you around. Being arrested could make travel to another country tricky. Finally, beating one or two bullies might not be sufficient. If there is a group of people around you could end up very badly beaten, perhaps hospitalised, and potentially even dead.
sarreph 13y ago
This advice is likely to remedy a bullying-situation somewhat, but it's often the most difficult and harrowing response for a victim to fathom. It often doesn't stack the odds in your favour an awful lot in terms of when an authority begins to intervene. I was the subject of, what I consider, mild bullying at points during my schooling, and I really could never bring myself to physically fight back: a. because the bullies are almost always multiple in number and rather daunting b. I didn't want to hurt anyone, per se Eventually, as with most bullying, it became more and more infrequent simply because I refused to retaliate or show any kind of response. It's the hardest pill to swallow, as a victim, but often the easiest and more fruitful of the alternatives. Giving bullies attention of any kind for their behaviour is a rewarding mechanism that only serves to attract more atrocious individuals and increase its frequency and intensity. I respect your advice to 'fight back', but I honestly think a policy of ignorance (where the victim is not seriously endangered and has a support network) is the much more practical way to go about things.
- onli 13y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I'm happy it worked for you. But I want to point out that you were incredibly lucky this worked. You only need one enemy with a sadistic impulse and it will never stop. By not retaliating, you also show others, less courageous members of their group, that it is safe for them to mess with you. Making a fuss about it, from teachers to parents to police to violence, is the one thing I know that helped me. My case was never that severe. But there was a group of people in my school who enjoyed bullying me. And I went through all those phases, sans police, and I regret every month I tried to do nothing about it. I suffered, and I now think unnecessarily. Later, when that had basically stopped (most of them had to leave the school) there was a group of younger kids who thought they could do the same to me. One I gave a kick in the stomach after he attacked me, and he stopped. Sure, he tried to attack me a few month later in the city, but that didnt work out for him. One group of younger pupils tried to insult me while going to class, so after the third time, I rushed into them and grabbed one and hit him again and again. He cried the whole following school hour I was told, and they never bothered me again. I know that his is not politically correct, and not totally applicable onto the authors situation. Maybe one can do it better with help from above - if you have the chance, do that first. But hard responses, that is my point.
lectrick 13y ago
> Throw punches (literally), let them be suspended, arrested, do everything you can do to punish everyone who tries to mess with you that way. You will gain respect, because you have to, even if you sometimes lose a fight - legal or physically. It pains me to report that this is the only thing that came close to completely stopping my bullying and I have the multiple suspensions to prove it. I have to say that I'd be much worse off today had I not decided to defend myself, sometimes physically. In one instance, a larger tougher boy (I was a scrawny kid) kept messing with me in study hall, kept challenging me to fight after school. One day I finally got fed up and with a bit of grit in my teeth I stood up and said yes, fine, it's time to fight after school. Know what? He patted me on the shoulder and said "you're cool, man, you're cool." ?!?!?!
JonoBB 13y ago
I'm all for fighting back, and this is what I will teach my kids as they get older. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfn4OxCPQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfn4OxCPQs

by onli 13y ago

catshirt 13y ago

i understand the rationale behind "fight back" and in many instances it is probably the right solution. but if 15 people are bullying you and sending you death threats, punching one sounds like the dumbest god damned idea.

onli 13y ago
If you get death threats, it is a case for the police anyway, before any cyber bullying laws. And severe enough, like described in the article, for them to act.
- catshirt 13y ago
  i didn't downvote you but i admit i was probably too dismissive of your post. i see now you were suggesting that punching/suspension/arrest are all different methods for fighting back (some more suitable than others depending on the circumstances).
Wohui 13y ago
This needs more votes, simply for reminding people that bullying isn't some generic situation. The least bad case of bullying is when you have a single bully, who can be made to start treating you as a human being without going as far as a fight. The worst case is a group, who chronically hate you for whatever reason. Not every situation in life has a solution, if you have enough enemies.
- hga 13y ago
  It's really an "it depends" thing. If it applies, oderint dum metuant, "let them hate, so long as they fear". If making a stark object lesson out of one or more of the bullies will prompt all of them to find easier targets, it's an option. Or have your father make credible threats to their families: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7646566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7646566 In other situations, some described in this discussion, that won't work. Although you have to factor in your own psychological health: Ah, yes, I forgot, I was subjected to one group "bullying" incident in college (assault, actually), and I replied with a credible threat of lethal force, was in fact one step from planting a Kabar knife in the gut of the closest adversary, as in that would have happened if he'd moved one step further and finished trying to place his hands on me. He and the group decided there were easier targets. And, sure, they hated me, but they never dared try anything again. And I would have never been able to respect myself if I hadn't stood up to them that night. (A few more details: there was some harassment later that night, busting my door knob by hurdling a shopping cart? into it repeatedly, turning off my power, pretty much pathetic stuff like that. But absolutely none after, except for shunning. And the dorm floor graduate counselor/baby sitter? probably talked to them, perhaps pointing out the consequences of assaulting people. I know he did to me, but it was just to confirm that I wasn't the sort of person to threaten or use lethal force without proper justification.)

arel 13y ago

I've seen this happen too and despite the apprehension of causing a "fuss" the only proper response is to fight back through proper channels and use the laws in place designed to protect you and potential future victims - in the UK there is harassment law, the malicious communications act and court injunctions you can take out. The police tend to take quite a hard line too so don't suffer in silence.

brazzy 13y ago

This is very dangerous advice. You will most likely lose that fight, badly, because you are in the minority. YOU will most likely end up being suspended and arrested, because the bullies have friends who will testify against you, and they're the popular, trustworthy ones. And escalating violence can quickly get to a point where consequences are completely out of proportion especially when you're up against people who "follow animalic instinct" - anything you do that makes them look bad compels them to retalitate in kind. What you need is allies and/or support from authorities.

onli 13y ago
> YOU will most likely end up being suspended and arrested Note that I'm not in the USA. That consequence doesn't exist in my country, not if you are provoked. And note that I agree. Allies and Authorities are a good mean of fighting back.
- brazzy 13y ago
  > That consequence doesn't exist in my country, not if you are provoked. Oh, but there are 5 well-respected pupils who all say that you started that fight without provocation.
  - herokusaki 13y ago
    Valid point. It make me think that perhaps sousveillance isn't a bad idea.
  - hga 13y ago
    Per my above comment, you're missing the point. What's the problem if you started "the fight" (which should be a carefully arranged beat down of your target, nothing resembling a fight)? Your objective is to stop the bullying, not be perceived as an angel (well, except for possibly those terrible Old Testament smiting types).
    - DanBC 13y ago
      The problem is that you get removed from school and given a label of "potentially violent" which will follow you around for a while. Some countries will prosecute youths involved in violence. Even if prosecution is avoided there might be something like the English "caution" where the person accepts their guilt and accepts a caution (which is kept on record) in order to avoid prosecution. This could also follow you around. Being arrested could make travel to another country tricky. Finally, beating one or two bullies might not be sufficient. If there is a group of people around you could end up very badly beaten, perhaps hospitalised, and potentially even dead.

sarreph 13y ago

This advice is likely to remedy a bullying-situation somewhat, but it's often the most difficult and harrowing response for a victim to fathom. It often doesn't stack the odds in your favour an awful lot in terms of when an authority begins to intervene. I was the subject of, what I consider, mild bullying at points during my schooling, and I really could never bring myself to physically fight back: a. because the bullies are almost always multiple in number and rather daunting b. I didn't want to hurt anyone, per se Eventually, as with most bullying, it became more and more infrequent simply because I refused to retaliate or show any kind of response. It's the hardest pill to swallow, as a victim, but often the easiest and more fruitful of the alternatives. Giving bullies attention of any kind for their behaviour is a rewarding mechanism that only serves to attract more atrocious individuals and increase its frequency and intensity. I respect your advice to 'fight back', but I honestly think a policy of ignorance (where the victim is not seriously endangered and has a support network) is the much more practical way to go about things.

onli 13y ago
Thanks for sharing. I'm happy it worked for you. But I want to point out that you were incredibly lucky this worked. You only need one enemy with a sadistic impulse and it will never stop. By not retaliating, you also show others, less courageous members of their group, that it is safe for them to mess with you. Making a fuss about it, from teachers to parents to police to violence, is the one thing I know that helped me. My case was never that severe. But there was a group of people in my school who enjoyed bullying me. And I went through all those phases, sans police, and I regret every month I tried to do nothing about it. I suffered, and I now think unnecessarily. Later, when that had basically stopped (most of them had to leave the school) there was a group of younger kids who thought they could do the same to me. One I gave a kick in the stomach after he attacked me, and he stopped. Sure, he tried to attack me a few month later in the city, but that didnt work out for him. One group of younger pupils tried to insult me while going to class, so after the third time, I rushed into them and grabbed one and hit him again and again. He cried the whole following school hour I was told, and they never bothered me again. I know that his is not politically correct, and not totally applicable onto the authors situation. Maybe one can do it better with help from above - if you have the chance, do that first. But hard responses, that is my point.

lectrick 13y ago

> Throw punches (literally), let them be suspended, arrested, do everything you can do to punish everyone who tries to mess with you that way. You will gain respect, because you have to, even if you sometimes lose a fight - legal or physically. It pains me to report that this is the only thing that came close to completely stopping my bullying and I have the multiple suspensions to prove it. I have to say that I'd be much worse off today had I not decided to defend myself, sometimes physically. In one instance, a larger tougher boy (I was a scrawny kid) kept messing with me in study hall, kept challenging me to fight after school. One day I finally got fed up and with a bit of grit in my teeth I stood up and said yes, fine, it's time to fight after school. Know what? He patted me on the shoulder and said "you're cool, man, you're cool." ?!?!?!

JonoBB 13y ago

I'm all for fighting back, and this is what I will teach my kids as they get older. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfn4OxCPQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfn4OxCPQs