> This entire story underlies to me the need to bootstrap into something that is already working and has numbers before talking to anyone about taking money. I

> This entire story underlies to me the need to bootstrap into something that is already working and has numbers before talking to anyone about taking money. I could not agree more. There are certainly exceptions, but they should be that, not the standard/norm. Aside from the high risk from a business perspective, you're putting other people's financial situation in jeopardy, not to mention you have an obligation to investors to return their money, thus you are working for them despite what equity % they have. My hard-line for my start-up was that I must be able to pay salary from site revenue, and before I could bring anyone on I had to make sure it could support at least 1 person's living expenses (me) because I do not want to risk other's situations/lives on a promise or a "trust me" or a "by the way I need money" sort of deal. It's certainly a slower process but I'm learning a lot along the way in the area's (non-technical) I'm not as familiar with. I guess the other thing is I'd prefer to be able to travel while I work and I don't feel that'd be possible if I were taking VC-money. Either way, it's a fun game, to work on your idea and bring it to fruition.