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So I ask this only half-jokingly - at this point, what self-respecting engineer would continue to work at Google, Apple, or these other firms? I mean, these gu

by defen 13y ago

So I ask this only half-jokingly - at this point, what self-respecting engineer would continue to work at Google, Apple, or these other firms? I mean, these guys conspired to illegally suppress your wages, but you're essentially a bunch of suckers who get paid off with a comfortable living, "interesting work," and a bonus check for a couple thousand dollars and you're happy. Meanwhile the people behind this are making literally billions of dollars of profit.

cloudwalking 13y ago
I think you answer your own question :) Comfortable living, interesting work, and big bonus checks (tens of thousands for many, hundreds of thousands for some) are indeed what attract a lot of employees. Larry, Sergey, and Eric are universally loved inside of Google, I don't think people mind that they are billionaires. It's not like they're taking $500MM a year in salary.
- defen 13y ago
  Thank you for making my point for me. BTW the bonus checks I was referring to were the settlement payouts, not normal annual bonuses.
- AxeFights 13y ago
  Nope, just a mere 83 thousand shares of stock per year. It's quite modest. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=GOOG+Insider+Transactions http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=GOOG+Insider+Transactions
fixermark 13y ago
Salaried employment is made of suckers who can be compensated with less than they might be worth because the alternative is a world where they would have to fight for every scrip, scrap, and slice that they are owed. I've been on both sides of that coin---I've worked for the startups and I've worked for "the industry." Am I being "taken advantage of?" Am I being paid less than I'm worth? Probably. But I wouldn't trade the comfortable life of knowing my paycheck won't bounce for the hardscrabble life of the startup cowboy any day of the week. I'm curious what your recommendation is. Is there a third option? Are you recommending people not work for the firms specifically involved in the settlement? I guess I could always look into IBM...
- 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
  Most of the people who work at startups are salaried employees. So what's your point? As for your third option, it's called self-employment. It demands that you fight for every scrip, scrap, and slice, but the reward is high: it's one of the best and only ways to get paid what you're truly worth.
  - fixermark 13y ago
    It's not for me; I like externally-imposed structure and hate doing my own accounting specifically enough to track all the taxes self-employment demands I track. But it is a third option, and I tip my hat to those who find it fulfilling.
- defen 13y ago
  The alternative I am suggesting is to work for any of the million other companies out there, or work for yourself. Sure, IBM is an option, but there are plenty of others also. It's not even about the amount of money lost/denied. It's about the principle of the thing - hence my comment about self-respect. Why would you work for one of the companies that engaged in this behavior when you have so many other options?
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    Can't retire on principles.
bdlbdl 13y ago
This was a no-solicit agreement, not a no-hire. If you were working at Apple and wanted to work at Google, you could just apply and get hired. And then you could get a counter-offer from your current employer. Nobody stopped this from happening, and a lot of engineers made a lot of money doing exactly this.
- defen 13y ago
  > And then you could get a counter-offer from your current employer. Nobody stopped this from happening, and a lot of engineers made a lot of money doing exactly this. 61. Third, each agreed that if either made an offer to such an employee of the other company, neither company would counteroffer above the initial offer. This third agreement was created with the intent and effect of eliminating "bidding wars," whereby an employee could use multiple rounds of bidding between Pixar and Lucasfilm to increase her total compensation.
dredmorbius 13y ago
It's a trade-off. Diogenes, Aristippus, and Dionysus A philosopher named Aristippus, who had quite willingly sucked up to Dionysus and won himself a spot at his court, saw Diogenes cooking lentils for a meal. "If you would only learn to compliment Dionysus, you wouldn't have to live on lentils." Diogenes replied, "But if you would only learn to live on lentils, you wouldn't have to flatter Dionysus." The question is which you like less (or prefer more): lentils or having to flatter.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Well I still want to work at Google, but that's not for the money, it's for world domination.

by defen 13y ago

cloudwalking 13y ago

I think you answer your own question :) Comfortable living, interesting work, and big bonus checks (tens of thousands for many, hundreds of thousands for some) are indeed what attract a lot of employees. Larry, Sergey, and Eric are universally loved inside of Google, I don't think people mind that they are billionaires. It's not like they're taking $500MM a year in salary.

defen 13y ago
Thank you for making my point for me. BTW the bonus checks I was referring to were the settlement payouts, not normal annual bonuses.
AxeFights 13y ago
Nope, just a mere 83 thousand shares of stock per year. It's quite modest. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=GOOG+Insider+Transactions http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=GOOG+Insider+Transactions

fixermark 13y ago

Salaried employment is made of suckers who can be compensated with less than they might be worth because the alternative is a world where they would have to fight for every scrip, scrap, and slice that they are owed. I've been on both sides of that coin---I've worked for the startups and I've worked for "the industry." Am I being "taken advantage of?" Am I being paid less than I'm worth? Probably. But I wouldn't trade the comfortable life of knowing my paycheck won't bounce for the hardscrabble life of the startup cowboy any day of the week. I'm curious what your recommendation is. Is there a third option? Are you recommending people not work for the firms specifically involved in the settlement? I guess I could always look into IBM...

7Figures2Commas 13y ago
Most of the people who work at startups are salaried employees. So what's your point? As for your third option, it's called self-employment. It demands that you fight for every scrip, scrap, and slice, but the reward is high: it's one of the best and only ways to get paid what you're truly worth.
- fixermark 13y ago
  It's not for me; I like externally-imposed structure and hate doing my own accounting specifically enough to track all the taxes self-employment demands I track. But it is a third option, and I tip my hat to those who find it fulfilling.
defen 13y ago
The alternative I am suggesting is to work for any of the million other companies out there, or work for yourself. Sure, IBM is an option, but there are plenty of others also. It's not even about the amount of money lost/denied. It's about the principle of the thing - hence my comment about self-respect. Why would you work for one of the companies that engaged in this behavior when you have so many other options?
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Can't retire on principles.

bdlbdl 13y ago

This was a no-solicit agreement, not a no-hire. If you were working at Apple and wanted to work at Google, you could just apply and get hired. And then you could get a counter-offer from your current employer. Nobody stopped this from happening, and a lot of engineers made a lot of money doing exactly this.

defen 13y ago
> And then you could get a counter-offer from your current employer. Nobody stopped this from happening, and a lot of engineers made a lot of money doing exactly this. 61. Third, each agreed that if either made an offer to such an employee of the other company, neither company would counteroffer above the initial offer. This third agreement was created with the intent and effect of eliminating "bidding wars," whereby an employee could use multiple rounds of bidding between Pixar and Lucasfilm to increase her total compensation.

dredmorbius 13y ago

It's a trade-off. Diogenes, Aristippus, and Dionysus A philosopher named Aristippus, who had quite willingly sucked up to Dionysus and won himself a spot at his court, saw Diogenes cooking lentils for a meal. "If you would only learn to compliment Dionysus, you wouldn't have to live on lentils." Diogenes replied, "But if you would only learn to live on lentils, you wouldn't have to flatter Dionysus." The question is which you like less (or prefer more): lentils or having to flatter.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

Well I still want to work at Google, but that's not for the money, it's for world domination.