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I realize that it's an aside in the article but I wanted to contradict something: > What’s less well understood is that Apple’s board and investors were absolu

I realize that it's an aside in the article but I wanted to contradict something: > What’s less well understood is that Apple’s board and investors were absolutely right to fire Jobs. Early in his career, he was petulant, mean, and destructive This idea (Jobs needed to be away from Apple to improve himself) gets mentioned a lot but I think it's nonsense. First: Jobs was petulant, mean and destructive to people he disagreed with – for his whole life. He never dropped this trait. It might have appeared that he mellowed but he really just left an Apple that he no longer controlled and started another company where he had full control (he owned Pixar as well as NeXT but never exerted full control there). Second: Was Apple really right to fire Jobs? In his first 7 years at Apple, Jobs oversaw (not designed or engineered) the only successful product lines in Apple's first 20 years: the Apple 2, the Mac and the Laserwriter. The latter two happened against the best wishes of the board who only wanted to focus on the Apple 2. In the 12 years after Jobs left, Apple never launched another successful hardware product line, it merely upgrading the existing products (Mac II, PPC Mac or unsuccessful ideas like the Newton). The early 90's at Apple's R&D in particular was completely chaotic and directionless sinking billions into Pink, Taligent, OpenDoc, CHRP and other doomed initiatives. Jobs didn't need to leave Apple to fix himself. He left Apple because he disagreed with everyone (in hindsight: probably rightfully so) and he couldn't fire them. When he returned, he had the authority to fire everyone he disliked (and he did). As for the comparison to Larry Page – I don't think they were as similar as the article implies. Jobs – for better and worse – was his own special brand of crazy.

pmelendez 13y ago
>"Second: Was Apple really right to fire Jobs? In his first 7 years at Apple, Jobs oversaw (not designed or engineered) the only successful product lines in Apple's first 20 years" I would argue that Jobs had any influence in the Apple II whatsoever, in fact according to Wozniak in iWoz, Jobs attempts to influence the Apple II originated the only fights the two of them ever had. On the other hand, Apple II was originating the vast majority of the revenue and in comparison the original mac had a very limited success.
- gdubs 13y ago
  Well, except for the idea that it should be packaged and marketed like an appliance, which arguably is what brought it to the mass-market.
tomhoward 13y ago
This idea (Jobs needed to be away from Apple to improve himself) gets mentioned a lot but I think it's nonsense. First: Jobs was petulant, mean and destructive to people he disagreed with – for his whole life. He never dropped this trait. You don't think age, experience and his spirituality made any difference at all to these tendencies and the ways he applied them? Of course we'll never know what would've happened had he stayed at Apple. But I find it very plausible that had he stayed, the company could have ended up in even worse trouble, and that the maturity, experience and outsider's perspective he developed in his time away were critical in enabling him to attain the level of success he achieved on his return.
- hashtag 13y ago
  Maybe. Certainly he learned something. But something about your comment bothers me. You speculated that had he stayed, the company could have ended up in worse trouble. But try to imagine if he did have the power to fire everyone like he did upon his return to Apple from the start. That might have made a difference too. But like you said, we'll never know
crusso 13y ago
Pink, Taligent, OpenDoc, CHRP Dear god, those are words that still chill me with the memory of hype and shattered expectations. The rest of your analysis is fairly spot on. Although I do think that Steve grew some outside of Apple. The reality is that Apple needed its years of failures without Jobs to realize how much he was needed. Really, even when they brought him back, they didn't understand how huge his impact would be. They just thought that they were buying NeXT with a bonus.
meylingtaing 13y ago
I was under the impression that Jobs wasn't fired, but that it was his choice to leave Apple. I'm aware almost every source out there (including quotes from Jobs himself) will say that he was fired, but from what I recall from reading iWoz, this isn't true.
mishimin 13y ago
"This idea (Jobs needed to be away from Apple to improve himself) gets mentioned a lot but I think it's nonsense." That's a very sweeping statement. I take it you have first hand experience (worked for Apple in the early days) or have extensive apple reporting experience. I don't think the point being made is that he "needed" to be away from Apple to improve himself. The point is that he was a very bad manager at Apple and had considerably improved when he came back. I think I read somewhere Woz saying he had to learn a lot about being a good manager from Mike Markula and others in the early days and I think in part John Sculley was brought in to correct these deficiencies. In that sense Larry Page and Jobs are similar - they were both green managers who made some awful decisions and had to learn a lot, if grudgingly from professional managers before becoming the great business leaders we see them to be.
marknutter 13y ago
> Jobs was petulant, mean and destructive to people he disagreed with – for his whole life. He never dropped this trait. I assume you know this from first hand interactions with him.
bonaldi 13y ago
The PowerBook was a truly non-Jobs Apple product and still one of their all-time greats.
erichocean 13y ago
A major thing Jobs learned in between his tenures at Apple is that it's not enough to design great products, you also have to design a great business model that can deliver them to market. Business model design is just as difficult IMO. (He learned this at Pixar positively, and at NeXT negatively. Pixar's campus is a great example of business design, along with their deal with Disney. This skill also sheds light on why he hired Tim Cook so early after his return to Apple.) Whether Jobs would have learned the same without NeXT/Pixar is anyone's guess. I suspect he would have.

pmelendez 13y ago

>"Second: Was Apple really right to fire Jobs? In his first 7 years at Apple, Jobs oversaw (not designed or engineered) the only successful product lines in Apple's first 20 years" I would argue that Jobs had any influence in the Apple II whatsoever, in fact according to Wozniak in iWoz, Jobs attempts to influence the Apple II originated the only fights the two of them ever had. On the other hand, Apple II was originating the vast majority of the revenue and in comparison the original mac had a very limited success.

gdubs 13y ago
Well, except for the idea that it should be packaged and marketed like an appliance, which arguably is what brought it to the mass-market.

tomhoward 13y ago

This idea (Jobs needed to be away from Apple to improve himself) gets mentioned a lot but I think it's nonsense. First: Jobs was petulant, mean and destructive to people he disagreed with – for his whole life. He never dropped this trait. You don't think age, experience and his spirituality made any difference at all to these tendencies and the ways he applied them? Of course we'll never know what would've happened had he stayed at Apple. But I find it very plausible that had he stayed, the company could have ended up in even worse trouble, and that the maturity, experience and outsider's perspective he developed in his time away were critical in enabling him to attain the level of success he achieved on his return.

hashtag 13y ago
Maybe. Certainly he learned something. But something about your comment bothers me. You speculated that had he stayed, the company could have ended up in worse trouble. But try to imagine if he did have the power to fire everyone like he did upon his return to Apple from the start. That might have made a difference too. But like you said, we'll never know

crusso 13y ago

Pink, Taligent, OpenDoc, CHRP Dear god, those are words that still chill me with the memory of hype and shattered expectations. The rest of your analysis is fairly spot on. Although I do think that Steve grew some outside of Apple. The reality is that Apple needed its years of failures without Jobs to realize how much he was needed. Really, even when they brought him back, they didn't understand how huge his impact would be. They just thought that they were buying NeXT with a bonus.

meylingtaing 13y ago

I was under the impression that Jobs wasn't fired, but that it was his choice to leave Apple. I'm aware almost every source out there (including quotes from Jobs himself) will say that he was fired, but from what I recall from reading iWoz, this isn't true.

mishimin 13y ago

"This idea (Jobs needed to be away from Apple to improve himself) gets mentioned a lot but I think it's nonsense." That's a very sweeping statement. I take it you have first hand experience (worked for Apple in the early days) or have extensive apple reporting experience. I don't think the point being made is that he "needed" to be away from Apple to improve himself. The point is that he was a very bad manager at Apple and had considerably improved when he came back. I think I read somewhere Woz saying he had to learn a lot about being a good manager from Mike Markula and others in the early days and I think in part John Sculley was brought in to correct these deficiencies. In that sense Larry Page and Jobs are similar - they were both green managers who made some awful decisions and had to learn a lot, if grudgingly from professional managers before becoming the great business leaders we see them to be.

marknutter 13y ago

> Jobs was petulant, mean and destructive to people he disagreed with – for his whole life. He never dropped this trait. I assume you know this from first hand interactions with him.

bonaldi 13y ago

The PowerBook was a truly non-Jobs Apple product and still one of their all-time greats.

erichocean 13y ago

A major thing Jobs learned in between his tenures at Apple is that it's not enough to design great products, you also have to design a great business model that can deliver them to market. Business model design is just as difficult IMO. (He learned this at Pixar positively, and at NeXT negatively. Pixar's campus is a great example of business design, along with their deal with Disney. This skill also sheds light on why he hired Tim Cook so early after his return to Apple.) Whether Jobs would have learned the same without NeXT/Pixar is anyone's guess. I suspect he would have.