8 ms·

$0.05/kwh. About what industrial users pay in most of the US.

by jws 13y ago

grecy 13y ago
I thought superchargers were solar powered?
- lutusp 13y ago
  That's for the future. Apropos, the source of power for electric cars is a frequent discussion issue among environmentalists. In some parts of the country, for example the Northwest, there's a lot of hydroelectric power, so an electric car is better for the environment than a gas-powered car. But in places where most of the power is generated using coal, it's not so clear-cut -- owning an electric car or a gas-powered car might have roughly equal effects on the environment.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 13y ago
    Factor in nuclear-as-drop-in-replacement for coal, or future solar / wind generation capacity then purchasing an EV now still makes sense. Cars are on the road for 20+ years, new generation capacity is coming online constantly, so I think it makes sense for people to buy EVs.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      EVs make sense for some people. But not most people. Not yet.
      - grecy 13y ago
        > But not most people. Not yet. Out of curiosity, what do you think needs to change for them to make sense for most people? I personally feel the Model S has made an enormous step towards "makes sense" for a lot of people, and I have to think the X will "make sense for most"
  - wfjackson 13y ago
    I guess one of the benefits is that you're decoupling the energy transfer method from the energy source. If there is new development of solar, wind, geothermal, wave energy etc. electric cars will be ready to receive energy from them versus trying to replace ICE cars. Even if the energy is derived from coal, cleaning the waste products at the factory is easier and is easier to upgrade the filters rather than replacing catalytic converters with better ones on regular cars.
  - 3pt14159 13y ago
    Really? When I researched this last, even the worst power source charging a Tesla outpaced internal combustion pollution (at the point of power generation only, not counting the cost of making the batteries).
  - afarrell 13y ago
    Keep in mind that what matters is not just the amount of power generation capacity, but the ability of that capacity to respond to demand. Some background: The bulk electricity market (at least in NY state) is run as a giant linear programming problem to satisfy the demand for all regions with a set of supply curves that suppliers bid into the market. They all get paid the same price that the marginal watt (the last watt you need to buy to meet demand) costs. So, natural gas turbines, who can turn on and off relatively quickly, will bid high and are likely to be the marginal watt. Nuclear plants bid very low and occasionally negative because it actually costs them money to shut down because they then can't start up again soon. So, they want to be sure that they are going to be scheduled. This is oversimplified and ignores the difference between the day-ahead market and real-time market, products like regulation (we pay money for people to be ready to turn on/off and keep things at 60Hz), and inter-zone transmission) The point is that a nuclear plant can't suddenly turn on in response to a spike in demand from quickly-charging car batteries. A bigass flywheel or a bigass battery (shameless plug for Sadoway: http://www.ambri.com/ http://www.ambri.com/) might though.
Omniusaspirer 13y ago
One hell of a disparity between that and my parents paying ~$.18/kwh in rural Michigan.
- jws 13y ago
  Your rural parents don't make nearly the use of the physical wiring that cost so much to install. It shows in the rate.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    That and slamming consumers is what the power companies do (here in New Zealand). See the commerce commission report (2009 - and there have been large price increases since) that found profits unreasonably high. http://www.comcom.govt.nz/dmsdocument/192 http://www.comcom.govt.nz/dmsdocument/192
    - xupybd 13y ago
      Also a kiwi here. Read the summary and it said the commission closed the investigation. Looks like every thing was legal, just the power companies maximising profits. Exactly what companies should do.

$0.05/kwh. About what industrial users pay in most of the US.

by jws 13y ago

$0.05/kwh. About what industrial users pay in most of the US.

grecy 13y ago

I thought superchargers were solar powered?

lutusp 13y ago
That's for the future. Apropos, the source of power for electric cars is a frequent discussion issue among environmentalists. In some parts of the country, for example the Northwest, there's a lot of hydroelectric power, so an electric car is better for the environment than a gas-powered car. But in places where most of the power is generated using coal, it's not so clear-cut -- owning an electric car or a gas-powered car might have roughly equal effects on the environment.
- TheSpiceIsLife 13y ago
  Factor in nuclear-as-drop-in-replacement for coal, or future solar / wind generation capacity then purchasing an EV now still makes sense. Cars are on the road for 20+ years, new generation capacity is coming online constantly, so I think it makes sense for people to buy EVs.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    EVs make sense for some people. But not most people. Not yet.
    - grecy 13y ago
      > But not most people. Not yet. Out of curiosity, what do you think needs to change for them to make sense for most people? I personally feel the Model S has made an enormous step towards "makes sense" for a lot of people, and I have to think the X will "make sense for most"
- wfjackson 13y ago
  I guess one of the benefits is that you're decoupling the energy transfer method from the energy source. If there is new development of solar, wind, geothermal, wave energy etc. electric cars will be ready to receive energy from them versus trying to replace ICE cars. Even if the energy is derived from coal, cleaning the waste products at the factory is easier and is easier to upgrade the filters rather than replacing catalytic converters with better ones on regular cars.
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  Really? When I researched this last, even the worst power source charging a Tesla outpaced internal combustion pollution (at the point of power generation only, not counting the cost of making the batteries).
- afarrell 13y ago
  Keep in mind that what matters is not just the amount of power generation capacity, but the ability of that capacity to respond to demand. Some background: The bulk electricity market (at least in NY state) is run as a giant linear programming problem to satisfy the demand for all regions with a set of supply curves that suppliers bid into the market. They all get paid the same price that the marginal watt (the last watt you need to buy to meet demand) costs. So, natural gas turbines, who can turn on and off relatively quickly, will bid high and are likely to be the marginal watt. Nuclear plants bid very low and occasionally negative because it actually costs them money to shut down because they then can't start up again soon. So, they want to be sure that they are going to be scheduled. This is oversimplified and ignores the difference between the day-ahead market and real-time market, products like regulation (we pay money for people to be ready to turn on/off and keep things at 60Hz), and inter-zone transmission) The point is that a nuclear plant can't suddenly turn on in response to a spike in demand from quickly-charging car batteries. A bigass flywheel or a bigass battery (shameless plug for Sadoway: http://www.ambri.com/ http://www.ambri.com/) might though.

Omniusaspirer 13y ago

One hell of a disparity between that and my parents paying ~$.18/kwh in rural Michigan.

jws 13y ago
Your rural parents don't make nearly the use of the physical wiring that cost so much to install. It shows in the rate.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  That and slamming consumers is what the power companies do (here in New Zealand). See the commerce commission report (2009 - and there have been large price increases since) that found profits unreasonably high. http://www.comcom.govt.nz/dmsdocument/192 http://www.comcom.govt.nz/dmsdocument/192
  - xupybd 13y ago
    Also a kiwi here. Read the summary and it said the commission closed the investigation. Looks like every thing was legal, just the power companies maximising profits. Exactly what companies should do.