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The lawyers also do all the work and take on all the risk.

by harryh 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 13y ago
Upvoted, because as much as I hate your answer, you're right.
Stratoscope 13y ago
> The lawyers also do all the work and take on all the risk. Except for being the ones who were actually harmed in the matter. Edit: Despite my snarky reply, I'm with toomuchtodo - I upvoted your post even if I felt annoyed by it at first, because you make a very good and valid point and it gave me food for thought. Why was I annoyed by your post, then? Probably my Borland check. It must have been about 20 years ago, but there was some class action suit on Borland stock. I was in the class and from the numbers they sent out, it looked like I might actually get some real money out of it, at least a thousand bucks or so. Then my check came. $17. I pored through the documents to see what had gone wrong, and I found it: there was a limited settlement fund, I think around $12 million, only a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions that the original class action notification had talked about. Out of the $12 million settlement fund, the lawyers got $7.5 million. I'm going to quit software development and get into that business.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  Do it. Honestly. I would love to see one complainer here take on the task of dealing with a large class action lawsuit, and see what it's really like. People think startup life of "80 hour weeks" is bad. Try a large lawsuit sometime ;) Not that i think they aren't overpaid, or sometimes reach settlements that don't benefit anyone but lawyers, but that's a different problem, and in fact, why a lot of countries really don't do class action lawsuits like the US. The problem is people want the result they want, without having to do any of the work. If you want that result, you should be the lead plaintiff. Or opt out and sue yourself.
- harryh 13y ago
  It sounds like you didn't make much money because your side (mostly) lost the lawsuit. If the lawyers had taken nothing from the pot you would have made $45 instead which also wouldn't have been very exciting. Honestly I bet the lawyers weren't happy with the result either and their part of the settlement mostly just covered their costs.
- tomp 13y ago
  > Except for being the ones who were actually harmed in the matter. What did the engineers risk with this lawsuit? Nothing. What did the law firm risk? Getting paid peanuts for hundreds of hours they spend on the case if they lose.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    hundreds is certainly an underestimate. Lawsuits like this have massive amounts of discovery to go through.
  - conanbatt 13y ago
    The engineers lose the capacity to get compensation for what was done to them. If they lose the lawsuit by bad lawyers, they wont get a penny. The fact that there is risk upfront doesnt make any payoff reasonable. Otherwise, you wouldnt find layers keeping 99% abusive. The biggest question for me is, with so much money ats take, why dont several lawfirms compete to each other for a lower cut? at 2 billion profits potential profit, why dont they offer a lower comission to get the client?
    - harryh 13y ago
      Because the client is generally more concerned with getting a favorable outcome in the lawsuit than on the fee and a lawyer willing to charge a smaller fee is a signal that they will be less likely to achieve a favorable outcome. It's the same reason that you don't see a lot of price competition for real estate brokers (though this is changing some). I'm not saying this is a great reason, but I do thin it is the reason.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  Class members can opt out to preserve their own right to pursue independent action. Most won't, because as small as class action end payouts to class members may be, they don't carry the risk or time cost of pursuing your own direct action case.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
  It's ok for VC to risk their capital on startups, why is it not ok for lawyers to risk their time and capital on class action lawsuits?

The lawyers also do all the work and take on all the risk.

by harryh 13y ago

The lawyers also do all the work and take on all the risk.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

toomuchtodo 13y ago

Upvoted, because as much as I hate your answer, you're right.

Stratoscope 13y ago

> The lawyers also do all the work and take on all the risk. Except for being the ones who were actually harmed in the matter. Edit: Despite my snarky reply, I'm with toomuchtodo - I upvoted your post even if I felt annoyed by it at first, because you make a very good and valid point and it gave me food for thought. Why was I annoyed by your post, then? Probably my Borland check. It must have been about 20 years ago, but there was some class action suit on Borland stock. I was in the class and from the numbers they sent out, it looked like I might actually get some real money out of it, at least a thousand bucks or so. Then my check came. $17. I pored through the documents to see what had gone wrong, and I found it: there was a limited settlement fund, I think around $12 million, only a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions that the original class action notification had talked about. Out of the $12 million settlement fund, the lawyers got $7.5 million. I'm going to quit software development and get into that business.

DannyBee 13y ago
Do it. Honestly. I would love to see one complainer here take on the task of dealing with a large class action lawsuit, and see what it's really like. People think startup life of "80 hour weeks" is bad. Try a large lawsuit sometime ;) Not that i think they aren't overpaid, or sometimes reach settlements that don't benefit anyone but lawyers, but that's a different problem, and in fact, why a lot of countries really don't do class action lawsuits like the US. The problem is people want the result they want, without having to do any of the work. If you want that result, you should be the lead plaintiff. Or opt out and sue yourself.
harryh 13y ago
It sounds like you didn't make much money because your side (mostly) lost the lawsuit. If the lawyers had taken nothing from the pot you would have made $45 instead which also wouldn't have been very exciting. Honestly I bet the lawyers weren't happy with the result either and their part of the settlement mostly just covered their costs.
tomp 13y ago
> Except for being the ones who were actually harmed in the matter. What did the engineers risk with this lawsuit? Nothing. What did the law firm risk? Getting paid peanuts for hundreds of hours they spend on the case if they lose.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  hundreds is certainly an underestimate. Lawsuits like this have massive amounts of discovery to go through.
- conanbatt 13y ago
  The engineers lose the capacity to get compensation for what was done to them. If they lose the lawsuit by bad lawyers, they wont get a penny. The fact that there is risk upfront doesnt make any payoff reasonable. Otherwise, you wouldnt find layers keeping 99% abusive. The biggest question for me is, with so much money ats take, why dont several lawfirms compete to each other for a lower cut? at 2 billion profits potential profit, why dont they offer a lower comission to get the client?
  - harryh 13y ago
    Because the client is generally more concerned with getting a favorable outcome in the lawsuit than on the fee and a lawyer willing to charge a smaller fee is a signal that they will be less likely to achieve a favorable outcome. It's the same reason that you don't see a lot of price competition for real estate brokers (though this is changing some). I'm not saying this is a great reason, but I do thin it is the reason.
dragonwriter 13y ago
Class members can opt out to preserve their own right to pursue independent action. Most won't, because as small as class action end payouts to class members may be, they don't carry the risk or time cost of pursuing your own direct action case.
GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
It's ok for VC to risk their capital on startups, why is it not ok for lawyers to risk their time and capital on class action lawsuits?