5 ms·

BOOOOOooooooooo. I'm tired of this game of whack-a-mole I have to play on my home screen. If I've learned anything as a modern user it's not to let any app beco

by droob 12y ago

BOOOOOooooooooo. I'm tired of this game of whack-a-mole I have to play on my home screen. If I've learned anything as a modern user it's not to let any app become a part of your routine. It's not worth the hassle when they cash out.

Kiro 12y ago
> For those of you that use the Moves app – the Moves experience will continue to operate as a standalone app, and there are no plans to change that or commingle data with Facebook. What exactly is your problem?
- Torn 12y ago
  'There are no plans' is PR speak for 'there are no current plans'. Facebook is a data company, I'm sure they'd LOVE an accurate source of where their users have been, how they're moving around, etc. And then to sell-on that data to third parties, offer targeted advertisements in real time.
  - tsunamifury 12y ago
    In sorry, but did you ever imagine this wasn't the future for moves anyhow? If you are given a free service you better expect targeted ads at some point.
    - pilif 12y ago
      Moves wasn't free.
      - what_ever 12y ago
        Did they change the model recently? Or were they charging for their APIs? I don't remember they charging the users.
        pilif 12y ago
        I paid CHF 3 for the app. It was free for quite a while but at some point they started charging for it. Now granted, that was a one off purchase, but considering that most of the logic could actually be done in the app itself, and the server could be used as just a data store, I'd say these CHF 3 would go quite a long way in paying for that.
        crisnoble 12y ago
        For anyone else who didn't know what a CHF is, it stands for Swiss Francs. CHF 1 = $1.13 I did not pay for moves on ios or android in the US.
        ejain 12y ago
        CHF 3 = USD 3.40
        crisnoble 12y ago
        Thanks, fixed.
        sathomasga 12y ago
        Actually, most of the logic is done in the server. They're running some fairly sophisticated machine learning code that's beyond the capability of an iPhone. (It's pretty hard to distinguish between brisk walking, cycling, and driving in slow traffic.)
      - tmarthal 12y ago
        Moves.app was free up until November of last year when they released version 2.0. Here are the release notes http://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/moves/ http://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/moves/
- ahknight 12y ago
  Facebook and their historical lack of concern for people's data privacy. If FB or Google buy something, about a third of the users will leave (nearly) overnight to avoid getting caught in the data trap.
  - mccolin 12y ago
    While I agree with your concerns, I think you are overestimating the level of concern the average user has for privacy. I imagine power users make up a far smaller chunk of the user base than 1/3.
  - renaudg 12y ago
    Can you elaborate using undisputable facts the "historical lack of concern for people's data privacy" ? It is a widely assumed belief that I have never seen backed up with hard facts. User data being FB & Google's crown jewels and competitive advantage, you bet that they are concerned about not leaking it to anyone at all...
    - chadwickthebold 12y ago
      You just answered your own question. It is generally accepted that Facebook and Google derive a large source of their revenue from advertisement, which is in such high demand at these companies precisely because they control so much of your personal data. It isn't so much of a leap of reasoning to think that a company willing to sell some information about you isn't willing to go further than you'd like them to. Again, it's not that we're worried about them 'leaking' it - we're worried about how they're going to sell and make money off of it.
    - bertil 12y ago
      > It is a widely assumed belief that I have never seen backed up with hard facts. ‘Privacy’ or even ‘Data’ are not even remotely well defined enough for those statements to have a clear meaning. However, many people have felt betrayed when using Facebook. Some of it — potentially the majority of cases — have to do with the fact that the service is new, and the lack of understanding led to many context collapses: there are many situations to consider, but all involve three people knowing each other, one having authority over a second, but not a third. Classic case involve a teenage child, a parent and a common friend or relative. The relative reveals inadvertently something. This is far more disempowering to non-users mentioned by friends, or whose photo was taken. Facebook was openly careless about those cases, manu legitimate — Mark Zuckerberg went up to publicly justify his disregard by saying that people shouldn’t have things to hide to their friends, a callous statement if there is any. There are many more problematic cases, where the person feeling betrayed was attentive and knowledgable, but Facebook changed the way they handle privacy without clear warning, and something that wasn’t became visible. This is the case of profile pictures, for instance. You have important social information there; some people assumed that their photo with their significant other would remain as private as their set it, but that changed, without recourses. There are many more similar issues, related to poor explanations of updates. There is no way the wordings chose for most updates came form considerate product managers. There are more examples, generally to the overall attitude: ‘better ask for foregiveness than permission’, rephrased as (and plastered all over their headquarter as essential values): “Move fast, break things”. When it comes to privacy, you can’t get the cat back in the bag. Company motto, public statements by the Founder-CEO, presentation of privacy-impacting updates… that’s plenty of proof for who would take five minutes to care looking. I know for a fact that people at Facebook care about those — just they haven’t cared enough, repeatedly; and those cases where well documented.
- dan1234 12y ago
  Plans change. Why would Facebook buy them if not for the data? It's not like Facebook is in need of new users and the app itself isn't especially novel from a technical POV.
  - ar7hur 12y ago
    FB hired the team they don't give a damn about the users or the data.
    - lhc- 12y ago
      If FB hired them for the team, though, there's no reason to keep the app around. Those people would be moved into new roles and the app would be sunset.
      - ar7hur 12y ago
        Let's see 6 months from now if the app is still around -- personally I bet it won't.

by droob 12y ago

Kiro 12y ago

> For those of you that use the Moves app – the Moves experience will continue to operate as a standalone app, and there are no plans to change that or commingle data with Facebook. What exactly is your problem?

Torn 12y ago
'There are no plans' is PR speak for 'there are no current plans'. Facebook is a data company, I'm sure they'd LOVE an accurate source of where their users have been, how they're moving around, etc. And then to sell-on that data to third parties, offer targeted advertisements in real time.
- tsunamifury 12y ago
  In sorry, but did you ever imagine this wasn't the future for moves anyhow? If you are given a free service you better expect targeted ads at some point.
  - pilif 12y ago
    Moves wasn't free.
    - what_ever 12y ago
      Did they change the model recently? Or were they charging for their APIs? I don't remember they charging the users.
      - pilif 12y ago
        I paid CHF 3 for the app. It was free for quite a while but at some point they started charging for it. Now granted, that was a one off purchase, but considering that most of the logic could actually be done in the app itself, and the server could be used as just a data store, I'd say these CHF 3 would go quite a long way in paying for that.
        crisnoble 12y ago
        For anyone else who didn't know what a CHF is, it stands for Swiss Francs. CHF 1 = $1.13 I did not pay for moves on ios or android in the US.
        ejain 12y ago
        CHF 3 = USD 3.40
        crisnoble 12y ago
        Thanks, fixed.
        sathomasga 12y ago
        Actually, most of the logic is done in the server. They're running some fairly sophisticated machine learning code that's beyond the capability of an iPhone. (It's pretty hard to distinguish between brisk walking, cycling, and driving in slow traffic.)
    - tmarthal 12y ago
      Moves.app was free up until November of last year when they released version 2.0. Here are the release notes http://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/moves/ http://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/app/moves/
ahknight 12y ago
Facebook and their historical lack of concern for people's data privacy. If FB or Google buy something, about a third of the users will leave (nearly) overnight to avoid getting caught in the data trap.
- mccolin 12y ago
  While I agree with your concerns, I think you are overestimating the level of concern the average user has for privacy. I imagine power users make up a far smaller chunk of the user base than 1/3.
- renaudg 12y ago
  Can you elaborate using undisputable facts the "historical lack of concern for people's data privacy" ? It is a widely assumed belief that I have never seen backed up with hard facts. User data being FB & Google's crown jewels and competitive advantage, you bet that they are concerned about not leaking it to anyone at all...
  - chadwickthebold 12y ago
    You just answered your own question. It is generally accepted that Facebook and Google derive a large source of their revenue from advertisement, which is in such high demand at these companies precisely because they control so much of your personal data. It isn't so much of a leap of reasoning to think that a company willing to sell some information about you isn't willing to go further than you'd like them to. Again, it's not that we're worried about them 'leaking' it - we're worried about how they're going to sell and make money off of it.
  - bertil 12y ago
    > It is a widely assumed belief that I have never seen backed up with hard facts. ‘Privacy’ or even ‘Data’ are not even remotely well defined enough for those statements to have a clear meaning. However, many people have felt betrayed when using Facebook. Some of it — potentially the majority of cases — have to do with the fact that the service is new, and the lack of understanding led to many context collapses: there are many situations to consider, but all involve three people knowing each other, one having authority over a second, but not a third. Classic case involve a teenage child, a parent and a common friend or relative. The relative reveals inadvertently something. This is far more disempowering to non-users mentioned by friends, or whose photo was taken. Facebook was openly careless about those cases, manu legitimate — Mark Zuckerberg went up to publicly justify his disregard by saying that people shouldn’t have things to hide to their friends, a callous statement if there is any. There are many more problematic cases, where the person feeling betrayed was attentive and knowledgable, but Facebook changed the way they handle privacy without clear warning, and something that wasn’t became visible. This is the case of profile pictures, for instance. You have important social information there; some people assumed that their photo with their significant other would remain as private as their set it, but that changed, without recourses. There are many more similar issues, related to poor explanations of updates. There is no way the wordings chose for most updates came form considerate product managers. There are more examples, generally to the overall attitude: ‘better ask for foregiveness than permission’, rephrased as (and plastered all over their headquarter as essential values): “Move fast, break things”. When it comes to privacy, you can’t get the cat back in the bag. Company motto, public statements by the Founder-CEO, presentation of privacy-impacting updates… that’s plenty of proof for who would take five minutes to care looking. I know for a fact that people at Facebook care about those — just they haven’t cared enough, repeatedly; and those cases where well documented.
dan1234 12y ago
Plans change. Why would Facebook buy them if not for the data? It's not like Facebook is in need of new users and the app itself isn't especially novel from a technical POV.
- ar7hur 12y ago
  FB hired the team they don't give a damn about the users or the data.
  - lhc- 12y ago
    If FB hired them for the team, though, there's no reason to keep the app around. Those people would be moved into new roles and the app would be sunset.
    - ar7hur 12y ago
      Let's see 6 months from now if the app is still around -- personally I bet it won't.