4 ms·

"No sales to minors" If law enforcement cannot stop drug sale en masse, how do you propose that sale to minors will be prevented? The analogy with cigarettes a

by Jun8 13y ago

"No sales to minors" If law enforcement cannot stop drug sale en masse, how do you propose that sale to minors will be prevented? The analogy with cigarettes and alcohol is not very apt: a lot of chain stores sell these (although some are pulling out: http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2014/02/05/cvs-to-stop-selling-tobacco-sacrificing-2-billion-in-sales-for-public-health-and-future-growth/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2014/02/05/cvs-to-...). It's clear that such outlets will not be open to drugs like heroin or MDMA.

atom-morgan 13y ago
Social pressure would take care of a lot of this. Imagine a Shell or Walgreens that tried selling marijuana or MDMA to minors. That wouldn't last long.
watwut 13y ago
You can ear a lot of money by selling drugs to masse. Much harder to get that much by selling it to minors. Incentives are different in both cases. Plus, most people do not feel like they are doing something wrong using/selling little pot. It is just illegal, not "bad". It might be different with selling to minors.
damon_c 13y ago
When I was a kid, it was much easier to get illegal drugs than alcohol. I assumed this was because one of them was only available to those over 21.
- wmeredith 13y ago
  Same here. In my high school the rich kids with fake ID's drank and everyone else smoked pot.
- saraid216 13y ago
  That's basically correct, with a bit more nuance. There's no profit in selling alcohol to kids. Not only does the law come down on you if you get caught, but they can't provide enough demand to make it worth the risk. Plus, a chunk of your clientele will get antsy about it. Illegal stuff, on the other hand, already has fully-operational structure measuring risk versus reward. The law is going to come down equally hard, so there's no increased risk, just more customers. Plus, the clients who find out are already incentivized to keep quiet. tl;dr, prohibiting something to a minority is ridiculously more effective than prohibiting something to a larger group.
  - dlsx 13y ago
    No one seems to touch on the fact the government and the law is wrong. Simple as that. The USA government leaches off humanity. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and the USA is the most corrupted country on the face of the earth.
michaelbuckbee 13y ago
The pattern that's emerging is for sales to happen at dedicated dispensaries. Morgan Spurlock had a good episode about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gx4-wS1nrM#t=337 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gx4-wS1nrM#t=337 I'm sure the one they highlighted is among the more professional, but looking at how it's run and the stakes involved I'd imagine it's no more possible for a minor to make a purchase there than at a state liquor store.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  Yeah the dispensaries I've been to have "bouncers" at the doors. There's no way a kid is going to make a purchase there. Of course a kid with money and an older friend can still buy...
tomp 13y ago
This would be the effect of legalizing the sale of drugs to adults: legal dealers would be able to offer lower prices than illegal ones (assuming that the taxes are not sky-high), so would price illegal dealers out of the market. However, for legal dealers (who are also risk-averse, like most businesses), it's very risky to offer drugs illegally (e.g. to minors) - they get all the disadvantages of illegal dealers (risk of jail/closing down the business) with few of the advantages (high price, but only on the amount of drugs sold to minors, which is presumably not a lot). Therefore, your market would partition into two groups: illegal and legal dealers (who would follow the law to the letter, like most businesses). The first group would also be extremely tiny - unless the state's taxes are higher than the risk premium illegal dealers are charging, which is unlikely.
Spooky23 13y ago
Through licensing, taxation and regulation. We don't limit alcohol to minors terribly effectively, but we're very good at nearly universally collecting excise tax revenue. States can aggressively police liquor licenses and enforce regulations with respect to sales to minors and get better compliance there. In my state, they clamp down regulation of kegs and made the traditional keg party much harder to execute on than it was in the past.
Crito 13y ago
In Washington (state), it is legal for people who are over 21 to buy cannabis. However there is nobody that is currently legally allowed to sell cannabis (to non-medical patients). Nevertheless, a few groups have popped up that are willing to sell cannabis to you (buying from them is legal, selling to you is illegal, only one party in the transaction is at risk). These groups are hyper-vigilant about only selling to people who can legally purchase from them (are over 21). They do this because the officials have publicly stated that their policy is to tolerate this, as long as they are operating within the general spirit of the legalization laws. Bars rarely card me anymore. These guys? Every single time.

by Jun8 13y ago

atom-morgan 13y ago

Social pressure would take care of a lot of this. Imagine a Shell or Walgreens that tried selling marijuana or MDMA to minors. That wouldn't last long.

watwut 13y ago

You can ear a lot of money by selling drugs to masse. Much harder to get that much by selling it to minors. Incentives are different in both cases. Plus, most people do not feel like they are doing something wrong using/selling little pot. It is just illegal, not "bad". It might be different with selling to minors.

damon_c 13y ago

When I was a kid, it was much easier to get illegal drugs than alcohol. I assumed this was because one of them was only available to those over 21.

wmeredith 13y ago
Same here. In my high school the rich kids with fake ID's drank and everyone else smoked pot.
saraid216 13y ago
That's basically correct, with a bit more nuance. There's no profit in selling alcohol to kids. Not only does the law come down on you if you get caught, but they can't provide enough demand to make it worth the risk. Plus, a chunk of your clientele will get antsy about it. Illegal stuff, on the other hand, already has fully-operational structure measuring risk versus reward. The law is going to come down equally hard, so there's no increased risk, just more customers. Plus, the clients who find out are already incentivized to keep quiet. tl;dr, prohibiting something to a minority is ridiculously more effective than prohibiting something to a larger group.
- dlsx 13y ago
  No one seems to touch on the fact the government and the law is wrong. Simple as that. The USA government leaches off humanity. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and the USA is the most corrupted country on the face of the earth.

michaelbuckbee 13y ago

The pattern that's emerging is for sales to happen at dedicated dispensaries. Morgan Spurlock had a good episode about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gx4-wS1nrM#t=337 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gx4-wS1nrM#t=337 I'm sure the one they highlighted is among the more professional, but looking at how it's run and the stakes involved I'd imagine it's no more possible for a minor to make a purchase there than at a state liquor store.

jessaustin 13y ago
Yeah the dispensaries I've been to have "bouncers" at the doors. There's no way a kid is going to make a purchase there. Of course a kid with money and an older friend can still buy...

tomp 13y ago

This would be the effect of legalizing the sale of drugs to adults: legal dealers would be able to offer lower prices than illegal ones (assuming that the taxes are not sky-high), so would price illegal dealers out of the market. However, for legal dealers (who are also risk-averse, like most businesses), it's very risky to offer drugs illegally (e.g. to minors) - they get all the disadvantages of illegal dealers (risk of jail/closing down the business) with few of the advantages (high price, but only on the amount of drugs sold to minors, which is presumably not a lot). Therefore, your market would partition into two groups: illegal and legal dealers (who would follow the law to the letter, like most businesses). The first group would also be extremely tiny - unless the state's taxes are higher than the risk premium illegal dealers are charging, which is unlikely.

Spooky23 13y ago

Through licensing, taxation and regulation. We don't limit alcohol to minors terribly effectively, but we're very good at nearly universally collecting excise tax revenue. States can aggressively police liquor licenses and enforce regulations with respect to sales to minors and get better compliance there. In my state, they clamp down regulation of kegs and made the traditional keg party much harder to execute on than it was in the past.

Crito 13y ago

In Washington (state), it is legal for people who are over 21 to buy cannabis. However there is nobody that is currently legally allowed to sell cannabis (to non-medical patients). Nevertheless, a few groups have popped up that are willing to sell cannabis to you (buying from them is legal, selling to you is illegal, only one party in the transaction is at risk). These groups are hyper-vigilant about only selling to people who can legally purchase from them (are over 21). They do this because the officials have publicly stated that their policy is to tolerate this, as long as they are operating within the general spirit of the legalization laws. Bars rarely card me anymore. These guys? Every single time.